Compulsory Vaccine - What does it mean?

[WheresYourIndicator]

Sorry for posting in AIBU but I know most traffic is here.

So reading the latest news headlines, Austria and Germany are making vaccines compulsory.

Can someone explain what this actually means? What are the consequences if someone refuses to be vaccinated. I appreciate I may sound thick here so I apologise in advance.

I am double vaccinated myself and will be booking my booster for January but I strongly disagree with people being forced to take something they don't want. Surely it sets a precedent for the future. What will the government try to force next?
Scary times ahead!

Does Singapore have a better idea - to bill you for your healthcare if you're unvaccinated by choice and you end up in hospital needing treatment for Covid

there was a separate thread on this - in some ways I can see where they are coming from, but on the other hand there are so many things people do to themselves that are injurious to their health and where do you stop?

@Barbie222

An opinion piece. Why is this being posted on every other Covid thread like it is gospel?

It's fair enough to post opinion, surely? What do you disagree with here?

Because it has been posted on several thread with the same caption "this is interesting" by different people. Seems dodgy to me.

Does Singapore have a better idea - to bill you for your healthcare if you're unvaccinated by choice and you end up in hospital needing treatment for Covid

Of course not. Plenty of hospitalisations can be prevented by people behaving differently. Why should covid be different?

Its not only wildly unethical, its unnecessary! Even at its worst, way back in the eye of the storm pre vaccine, no health service in the west became overwhelmed 🤷‍♀️

That said, I am equally sick to the fucking back teeth of anti vaxxers. Maybe we should send the rabid extremists at both ends of the 'debate' to their own wee island, they can bore the tits off each other all day long, and give the rest of us peace!

By that reasoning, anyone who smokes or drinks or does anything at all that may require healthcare eg having a baby should be treated the same way. You can't pick and choose!

You can, if the cost of prevention is much smaller than the cost of treatment. It's very, very expensive to prevent people drinking and smoking, or eating poorly (yes, tax is a part of this, but so is poverty) compared to the cost of treating them. With covid, it's the other way round. Having babies is a long term investment with brilliant return for society!

That said, I am equally sick to the fucking back teeth of anti vaxxers.

Who says is anti vaxxers against mandatory vaccination?

I can’t believe what I’m reading. This is absolutely horrific. Shocking and so wrong.

What do people think should be done to up the amount of people that getting vaccinated? Is it fair that in Ireland for instance someone transplant surgery had to be cancelled because the hospital beds were full of covid patients when if everyone were vaccinated this would not be the case? Are we supposed to keep locking down, all of our lives put on hold because a % of people remain stubbornly stupid? Talking sense, telling them the science none of that works, so genuine question what is the answer to this small % of the population that are set on collapsing health care systems across the EU?

(And the facts show that it is the unvaccinated that are doing this.)

[quote LuluBlakey1]I thought this was interesting in today's Guardian.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/21/icu-is-full-of-the-unvaccinated-my-patience-with-them-is-wearing-thin?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other[/quote]
Really good article, thanks for linking it.

@Mynameismargot

What do people think should be done to up the amount of people that getting vaccinated? Is it fair that in Ireland for instance someone transplant surgery had to be cancelled because the hospital beds were full of covid patients when if everyone were vaccinated this would not be the case? Are we supposed to keep locking down, all of our lives put on hold because a % of people remain stubbornly stupid? Talking sense, telling them the science none of that works, so genuine question what is the answer to this small % of the population that are set on collapsing health care systems across the EU?

(And the facts show that it is the unvaccinated that are doing this.)

I think a combination of vaccine passports and fines would bring the numbers down to a level at which it wouldn't matter what they did.

@Barbie222

By that reasoning, anyone who smokes or drinks or does anything at all that may require healthcare eg having a baby should be treated the same way. You can't pick and choose!

You can, if the cost of prevention is much smaller than the cost of treatment. It's very, very expensive to prevent people drinking and smoking, or eating poorly (yes, tax is a part of this, but so is poverty) compared to the cost of treating them. With covid, it's the other way round. Having babies is a long term investment with brilliant return for society!

Babies become adults who cost the NHS tons. They are also really bad for the planet.

Talking sense, telling them the science none of that works, so genuine question what is the answer to this small % of the population that are set on collapsing health care systems across the EU?

I think there only is a hardened core of absolute anti vaxxers who will almost certainly never change their minds. I think there are more people who just haven’t got around booking it, or aren’t that bothered about it. If it was made really, really easy for those to get vaccinated I’m sure a fair number would go for it.

Babies become adults who cost the NHS tons.
They are also really bad for the planet.

Nah, they raise money for it. I'm with you about the planet, though

The Singapore analogy you can't use as Singapore charge for all treatment anyway. It was only covid that was treated for free.

I don't agree with mandatory vaccination, but would agree with restrictions for the unvaccinated. No holidays, no using public transport etc...... unworkable in practice probably but it would be better than mandatory vaccination.

@ColinTheKoala

Does Singapore have a better idea - to bill you for your healthcare if you're unvaccinated by choice and you end up in hospital needing treatment for Covid

there was a separate thread on this - in some ways I can see where they are coming from, but on the other hand there are so many things people do to themselves that are injurious to their health and where do you stop?

Those other things that have been given as examples so far on this thread typically only affect the health of the person making those choices. Alcoholism isn't a public health issue, if you drink yourself nearly to death it isn't catching is it? I know smoking has second hand smoke risks but again you aren't putting the lives of others at risk really by choosing to smoke it's just yourself. You aren't risking the lives of your neighbours and the health of the economy.

As for babies, obviously that isn't a public health issue for whoever said that would be the next stage of nhs charges. It's not even a lifestyle choice it's necessary for the perpetuation of society and production of future tax payers.

I don't know how I feel about forced vaccination, I don't like the precedent it sets but I also don't think it's fair there are so many risking the health of others because they think they know better. If it wasn't a contagious virus I think I'd be more respectful of someone opting out of a vaccine. If you are the only person who might die as a result of refusal; then crack on!

@ItsSnowJokes

The Singapore analogy you can't use as Singapore charge for all treatment anyway. It was only covid that was treated for free.

I don't agree with mandatory vaccination, but would agree with restrictions for the unvaccinated. No holidays, no using public transport etc...... unworkable in practice probably but it would be better than mandatory vaccination.

So someone who is unvaccinated should be denied medical treatment because they need public transport to get there?

But is it OK for people who aren’t vaccinated to block beds with Covid and thereby preventing other people who are waiting for operations and other stuff. The list keeps on growing.

It seems that a lot of beds are occupied by unvaccinated. Now the booster is kicking in in older age groups.

I don’t have an answer. I believe in the right to choose. But what if it comes to the point where the unvaxxed are causing lockdowns or overwhelmed healthcare. What about the rights of the vaccinated.

I don't know how I feel about forced vaccination, I don't like the precedent it sets but I also don't think it's fair there are so many risking the health of others because they think they know better.

How would you enforce it?

Do you honestly think it will change the minds of anti vaxxers or is it more likely to get them to dig their heels in?

As far as I know (from German friend) this doesn't yet apply to Germany.

Sajid Javid said on Andrew Marr this morning that this is not the plan for the UK.

No need to panic.

You don't know how lucky you are in the UK.
You have twice the infections daily and 5 x the Covid related deaths that we have in France, no social distancing, no vaccine passport and your PM doesn't give a shit. Is Europe panicking or is the natural immunity being built up in the UK the best way to go?

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

But is it OK for people who aren’t vaccinated to block beds with Covid and thereby preventing other people who are waiting for operations and other stuff. The list keeps on growing.

It seems that a lot of beds are occupied by unvaccinated. Now the booster is kicking in in older age groups.

I don’t have an answer. I believe in the right to choose. But what if it comes to the point where the unvaxxed are causing lockdowns or overwhelmed healthcare. What about the rights of the vaccinated.

Someone needing medical care is not blocking a bed! That is not a thing! Bed blocking is someone not needing care, but can't be safely discharged.,

I think there only is a hardened core of absolute anti vaxxers who will almost certainly never change their minds. I think there are more people who just haven’t got around booking it, or aren’t that bothered about it. If it was made really, really easy for those to get vaccinated I’m sure a fair number would go for it.

Here in Ireland we had walk in vaccination clinics, an easy online system, chemists all over the place where you could get it, Drs surgeries doing vaccine clinics, how much easier can you make it? Call to their doors?!

We only have 7% of adults that aren't vaccinated but that 7% are taking up more than 50% of the covid HDU/ICU beds. It just isn't sustainable. We have vaccine passports and still have enough people unvaccinated that it is causing huge problems for the health service.

Natural immunity doesn’t last though. And one in five get no natural immunity.

@CouldThisReallyBe

As far as I know (from German friend) this doesn't yet apply to Germany.

Sajid Javid said on Andrew Marr this morning that this is not the plan for the UK.

No need to panic.

I heard a snippet on the radio about this too ( that it wont be happening in the UK). However, I don't trust a word anything the government says.