To think we shouldn’t treat a prisoner like this?

[Puttingthekettleon]

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1523361/Robert-Maudsley-killer-die-Wakefield-Prison-glass-box/amp

A concrete slab to sleep on, no television, no music? Surely that’s just not right?

@Puttingthekettleon

I don’t think giving him a remote control and a TV, and some books, is putting other prisoners or guards at risk, *@Nomorepies*

And that is the essential problem here, you don't see this is putting other people at risk. However those that deal with this man and others like him i.e. those with experience so know this could be the cause of someone getting serious and life-changingly hurt.

Had to think for a bit on the books but - tear them up, shove them down the loo, instant dirty protest.

Am sure there are other ways to create chaos with books if you are so minded.

@AnnaMagnani

Had to think for a bit on the books but - tear them up, shove them down the loo, instant dirty protest.

Am sure there are other ways to create chaos with books if you are so minded.

Concealment of fashioned weapons. It's a common tactic used by prisoners.

I work in secure hospitals and frequently nurse people in seclusion. They have a mattress on the floor strong rip proof bedding and clothing recently 6 of us had to go in while being hit , punched and spat at, we had to give the patient an IM and take the improvised weapon which was a plastic bottle lid with the edges sharpened.

Some people will literally make weapons out of anything it would have been risk assessed and risk assessed and sadly Robert is just too dangerous to other prisoners and the staff to be let out of seclusion.

I think this is a very difficult situation and the people reaction with 'He deserves a medal' and similar are, frankly, one of the reasons our society is such a mess.

If we could, somehow, move away from the baying of Daily Mail and Daily Express journalists demanding that people are hanged for just about any conceivable crime and look at countries where they have a successful justice and prison system we might all do a lot better.

Being deprived of your liberty is punishment enough. If you look at countries like Norway or Finland, where they have much better prison regimes they have far less recidivism, which is surely the most desirable outcome ? Leaving any moral questions to one side, it's just cheaper. Keeping someone in prison is very expensive. Helping someone to live a more fulfilling and constructive life when they leave prison is cheaper in every way and better in every way. But until we can move past this mob mentality of wanting to put the boot in I fear nothing will change.

In this particular case I feel very sorry for the man involved - it's quite clear he's had a troubled life and a poor upbringing. I don't have all the answers, but I cannot believe that keeping someone incarcerated like this on a permanent basis is either helpful or desirable. It reflects badly on us as a whole and speaks volumes to us as a so-called civilised society.

TVs can be smashed and use the screen pieces to make an improvised weapon the electrical cord can be used to strangle yourself or others. Batteries can be swallowed

@AnnaMagnani

An Alexa

So funny, do you think there is Wifi in prisons? It's basic that there are no mobile phones or internet access in prisons. Fucking Alexa, the naivety.

I think if a prisoner is deemed to need to be held in these conditions then the authorities should be required to do everything possible to make it as bearable as possible for him. I'm sure it would be far beyond the normal facilities, but he's essentially being tortured. No-one could bear to live like that. Saying it's for his own protection isn't good enough. This is inhuman.

@Bumblenums1234

I was going to say good but then I read his motivations for killing people were because they were showing pictures of kids they had abused and a man who murdered his wife.

Why aren't we treating the child abusers and women killers like this? Oh yeah, because women and children's lives are worth less.

I've always thought 'no that just can't be right' but I'm reality it seems it is true.

I don't blame him, I really dont.

@Theythinkitsalloveritisnow what do you suggest?

@AnnaMagnani

Had to think for a bit on the books but - tear them up, shove them down the loo, instant dirty protest.

Am sure there are other ways to create chaos with books if you are so minded.

I have mh problems and I do actually know of a man locally who did manage to kill himself using toilet paper.

The overwhelming majority of prisoners, even those who have murdered other prisoners, are not held in this exceptional situation. Prisoners who have murdered other prisoners are usually held in special units, where obviously they have minimal contact with other prisoners and a high staff-prisoner ratio, but the units are not these perspex box-style cages, and the prisoners are in normal cells.

I think if a prisoner is deemed to need to be held in these conditions then the authorities should be required to do everything possible to make it as bearable as possible for him. I'm sure it would be far beyond the normal facilities, but he's essentially being tortured. No-one could bear to live like that. Saying it's for his own protection isn't good enough. This is inhuman.

So you're going to give the very worst prisoners the ability to communicate with and direct things in the outside world, but not the others?

So funny, do you think there is Wifi in prisons? It's basic that there are no mobile phones or internet access in prisons. Fucking Alexa, the naivety.

Not naive. I have visited many prisons.

If they can construct a special cell for him, then the to can work out how he can access a tv with his voice using commonly available technology.

Keeping him without any entertainment for the rest of his life is not a humane option.

@Moonbabysmum

So funny, do you think there is Wifi in prisons? It's basic that there are no mobile phones or internet access in prisons. Fucking Alexa, the naivety.

Not naive. I have visited many prisons.

If they can construct a special cell for him, then the to can work out how he can access a tv with his voice using commonly available technology.

Keeping him without any entertainment for the rest of his life is not a humane option.

This is getting more and more mad as the thread goes on - with what money are they putting this research in for this particular violent prisoner?

Euthanasia should be legal in the country IMO, to people with terminal illness, with very painful conditions that have no cure, those who develop dementia (if they request it before/early on) and prisoners with with no chance of release. It's just cruel to make people live with/through all these things if they don't want because some people don't like the idea of euthanasia for themselves - that's fine! but give others the choice.

That people with terrible conditions go to court begging to be allowed to die and told no because it's not legal is just awful IMO. The same for this guy who was terribly abused as a child including he says being raped, took drugs and was a sex worker as a teen and then killed someone who showed him pictures of children he abused - and turned himself in straight away to the police. What an awful life he's had, he's gone about taking some awful people off the streets in completely the wrong way but give the man some peace now. Then there'll be no worries that he might kill anyone else.

@RecentYears

I think if a prisoner is deemed to need to be held in these conditions then the authorities should be required to do everything possible to make it as bearable as possible for him. I'm sure it would be far beyond the normal facilities, but he's essentially being tortured. No-one could bear to live like that. Saying it's for his own protection isn't good enough. This is inhuman.

So you're going to give the very worst prisoners the ability to communicate with and direct things in the outside world, but not the others?

No, I'm not a fucking expert in how to provide mental stimulation for people in solitary confinement. I'm saying the people responsible need to do everything possible to make the situation as bearable as possible.

Pleased to give you a little bit of amusement anyway, clearly torturing the mentally disturbed is no biggie for you

Oh good lord, the technology exists for recessed speakers and voice activated speakers already. No one is asking for funding to put him on the Moon.

@Tal45

Euthanasia should be legal in the country IMO, to people with terminal illness, with very painful conditions that have no cure, those who develop dementia (if they request it before/early on) and prisoners with with no chance of release. It's just cruel to make people live with/through all these things if they don't want because some people don't like the idea of euthanasia for themselves - that's fine! but give others the choice.

That people with terrible conditions go to court begging to be allowed to die and told no because it's not legal is just awful IMO. The same for this guy who was terribly abused as a child including he says being raped, took drugs and was a sex worker as a teen and then killed someone who showed him pictures of children he abused - and turned himself in straight away to the police. What an awful life he's had, he's gone about taking some awful people off the streets in completely the wrong way but give the man some peace now. Then there'll be no worries that he might kill anyone else.

This is so rational and yet also completely impossible

@Saucery

Oh good lord, the technology exists for recessed speakers and voice activated speakers already. No one is asking for funding to put him on the Moon.

Where is the money coming from to provide it to a violent prisoner? Where is the WiFi coming feom?

I’m literally begging you, think about it for four seconds.

@Tal45

Euthanasia should be legal in the country IMO, to people with terminal illness, with very painful conditions that have no cure, those who develop dementia (if they request it before/early on) and prisoners with with no chance of release. It's just cruel to make people live with/through all these things if they don't want because some people don't like the idea of euthanasia for themselves - that's fine! but give others the choice.

That people with terrible conditions go to court begging to be allowed to die and told no because it's not legal is just awful IMO. The same for this guy who was terribly abused as a child including he says being raped, took drugs and was a sex worker as a teen and then killed someone who showed him pictures of children he abused - and turned himself in straight away to the police. What an awful life he's had, he's gone about taking some awful people off the streets in completely the wrong way but give the man some peace now. Then there'll be no worries that he might kill anyone else.

I agree with euthanasia. But you’re on shaky ground introducing that kind of choice to prisoners. Think of Wayne Couzens, does he get to just escape his life (and his punishment) after what he did? It’s not an easy conversation.

@DeliriaSkibbly have you been inside Norwegian prisons? I have (for professional reasons) for many they are more liberal than in the UK however they still use restraint to contain (beds with leather straps) for significant period of time and subcontract much worse prisons in other countries for lower level or immigrant offenders who are transported there. Not every prison in Norway is like Halden, in fact most are not.

How could he harm himself with paperback books?

Easy. Rip the pages out, scrunch them up and then use them to choke or suffocate to death. I'm a Psychiatric Nurse and I know someone who did this. Would love to see all the people on this thread with their outrage and cries of inhumane etc etc a tially work in prison or secure hospital with someone like this guy and see what they would say then.

@Saucery

Oh bless you, Pumpy love, don’t lower yourself to beg a stranger on the Internet

I didn’t mention WiFi. I said something like an Alexa button on a Firestick, not give him Sky and Netflix subscriptions. As in, a nearly flat, recessed, sealed button flush with a solid surface. Dig it out, the connecting wires drop backwards, no opportunity for getting them.
Maybe a university electronics dept could do it as a project. It would have applications beyond this one, after all.

I also didn’t not say it was cost free technology. I didn’t put any monetary value to it, so not sure why you are throwing that in. Setting up a bullet-proof cell with surveillance round the clock isn’t cheap, I bet, yet we appear to be paying/have paid for that.

Loving your work, btw. Seen you in action in other Topics deliberately targeting individual posters and making shit up that you pretend they said. How honoured I am to be part of you passing the time of day with such dogged persistence

So going by your logic - we don’t have to come up with any ways he could get entertainment, we just have to suggest ways he could be entertained - why don’t we send in an entire film crew and he could be the star of his own movie? Why don’t we give him his own library and home cinema system?

I don’t recognise your username, do you namechange a lot?