to be alarmed by vaccine passports

[Loustew12]

Am I the only person who find the proposed extension of this alarming, given what's happening in Austria, where police are out checking the unvaccinated are hiding among the vaccinated? Gibraltar has 100% vaccination rate and cases are through the roof. So clearly being vaccinated doesn't 'stop the spread'. Therefore, there is no logical or justification for segregating society. It's surely a slippery slope to go down?

I am constantly amazed at some people’s eagerness to fat bash on the flimsiest of excuses. This thread is a case in point!

‘Oh no, if it isn’t the consequences of my own actions’ moan the ‘doing my my own research’ types, when they realise that not having the vaccine may cause them inconvenience.

We've had them since the beginning in France. There's some cheating going on but they are easy and effective. Doesn't feel like a conspiracy. It's just no big deal to ordinary people here.

What exactly are you worried about? Cos from here it really seems like worrying about vaccine passports is a bit mad.

@Worldgonecrazy

Having the vaccine reduces the chance of hospitalisation and serious illness.

So does not being fat.

One makes money for pharmaceutical and health industries.

One doesn’t. One also has long term additional benefits for the NHS.

Amazing that only one method is being promoted.

If, instead of vaccine passports, we had BMI passports there would be an outcry. And before someone points out BMI measurements aren’t perfect measurements of fitness, I would point out that vaccination status is not a perfect measure of either immunity or contagious status.

The best reply I have read since this whole thing began, couldn’t agree more!

Fully vaccinated ( although as boris says, the definition of fully vaccinated will evolve over time, so I guess I'm not fully vaccinated anymore ) very very concerned by vaccine passports, it is a slippery slope & definitely government over reach. The people who are all for them are kidding themselves that they will stop at the covid vaccine, they have already moved the goal posts for how many doses is fully vaxxed, I dont doubt that lots of other requirements will be added on. Also I believe in medical freedom, body autonomy and informed consent, vaccine passports will over ride every single one of them. Scary times indeed

@alborana

I've just come back from holiday and while there I met an elderly man who walked with a stick. He told me he contracted polio when he was 5 years old and had walked with a stick ever since. He also told me he couldn't read, as he had missed years of schooling as a child due to illness.

Vaccines have changed our lives. I cannot understand people who refuse to accept that and make some of the small sacrifices required to get normal life back.

Children are missing years of schooling in the States right now ironically because of panic-driven restrictions.

Vaccines are wonderful things, but it’s more complex than you’d think.

Here’s one about polio vaccination in developing
countries, where the vaccine-derived virus is often causing more problems than the wild virus: www.statnews.com/2019/09/13/the-switch-polio-eradication-quandary/

And then the scandal in the Philippines over the dengue vaccine—this one caused families to lose faith in other vaccines, like the MMR, which sadly led to a lot of unnecessary measles death among children.

Now you have to have actually had dengue fever in the past before they give it to children—otherwise it can trigger a deadly reaction if you give it to a immunologically naive child, and they then go on to contract dengue again.

All to say it’s complicated

I think Covid passports are a good thing. Sure, some people will have their freedoms restricted, but so what? Individual freedoms are restricted all the time in countless ways, that is a price we pay for living in a (so-called) civilized society.

I can't own a gun because my freedom to do so is restricted due to laws put in place because some people would use them irresponsibly. If I decide to join the army or set up a clay pigeon shooting club then perhaps I will be able to have a gun. It's the same with vaccine passports, people may have their freedoms restricted but have options if they want them to be restored.

You might say "blah blah bah you don't need to own a gun blah blah blah" but that applies to the vaccine passport system too: all it would do is restrict people from certain activities that are not strictly necessary, like going to the cinema or a restaurant. They'll still be allowed to go to the shop for food.

You might say "it's the thin end of the fucking wedge though, who knows what they will restrict next it'll be Nazi Germany all over again before we know it." Bollocks. By that logic banning drink-driving is the forerunner to banning drinking altogether. By lowering the age of consent to 16 they will soon lower it to 12, then 8. Just because there is a restriction put in place, doesn't automatically mean that restriction will be tightened in future. When the Le Mans 24 hour race banned female drivers on safety grounds in the 1950s, it didn't lead to female drivers being banned from driving on the road.

They'll still be allowed to go to the shop for food

You know the Vaccine Passport in Estonia at least restricts access to food shops too - some food shops can choose not to use it if they limit capacity such that there's a very low limit on occupancy.

So, how exactly can you assert that they won't be required for food?

@HarrietsChariot

I think Covid passports are a good thing. Sure, some people will have their freedoms restricted, but so what? Individual freedoms are restricted all the time in countless ways, that is a price we pay for living in a (so-called) civilized society.

I can't own a gun because my freedom to do so is restricted due to laws put in place because some people would use them irresponsibly. If I decide to join the army or set up a clay pigeon shooting club then perhaps I will be able to have a gun. It's the same with vaccine passports, people may have their freedoms restricted but have options if they want them to be restored.

You might say "blah blah bah you don't need to own a gun blah blah blah" but that applies to the vaccine passport system too: all it would do is restrict people from certain activities that are not strictly necessary, like going to the cinema or a restaurant. They'll still be allowed to go to the shop for food.

You might say "it's the thin end of the fucking wedge though, who knows what they will restrict next it'll be Nazi Germany all over again before we know it." Bollocks. By that logic banning drink-driving is the forerunner to banning drinking altogether. By lowering the age of consent to 16 they will soon lower it to 12, then 8. Just because there is a restriction put in place, doesn't automatically mean that restriction will be tightened in future. When the Le Mans 24 hour race banned female drivers on safety grounds in the 1950s, it didn't lead to female drivers being banned from driving on the road.

Completely agree - particularly with your last paragraph. I just can’t understand why people are being so obtuse. And to all those railing against the vaccine - if it were up to you, if you were in charge, what would you do when your hospitals had no beds for stroke / heart attack / road accident / meningitis etc etc patients? Seriously - what would you do? With corpses piling up in the hallways? As is happening now in Austria, despite 18 months of varying levels of restrictions. What is your suggestion?

You know the Vaccine Passport in Estonia at least restricts access to food shops too - some food shops can choose not to use it if they limit capacity such that there's a very low limit on occupancy.

Sorry, can you explain? Are you saying that there are limits on the number of people in a shop at one time? Isn't that the same as the UK?

@Worldgonecrazy

Having the vaccine reduces the chance of hospitalisation and serious illness.

So does not being fat.

One makes money for pharmaceutical and health industries.

One doesn’t. One also has long term additional benefits for the NHS.

Amazing that only one method is being promoted.

If, instead of vaccine passports, we had BMI passports there would be an outcry. And before someone points out BMI measurements aren’t perfect measurements of fitness, I would point out that vaccination status is not a perfect measure of either immunity or contagious status.

Oh come on - you think the public would respond better to a ‘lose weight’ campaign? Quite apart from the fact that it would take considerably longer for people to lose weight than to just GO AND GET THE ARSING VACCINATION, the “nanny state” frothing would be off the scale, remember the fury directed at Jamie Oliver for trying to get the schools to offer more healthy food. Give me a break.

I think there's a weird thing at play where a sizeable section of the vaccinated population are secretly pleased at the idea of the unvaccinated being cut off, not for any real health reasons, just a bit of bog standard schadenfreude.

I don't understand all the worry and concern to be honest.
In France and Ireland we've had these restrictions since the vaccine was rolled out.
Restaurants etc will check and scan your vaccine as you enter, same with travelling. Your vaccine / PCR will be checked as you leave and enter countries.

I don't feel restricted by this, in fact, i like it as it gives me a certain amount of comfort to think that all the people around me are also vaccinated.

There's no limits on the number of people in the shop in England (some still have numbers from when there was a voluntary system, but that was just a shop decision)

In Estonia, all large shops require vaccine passports.
Small shops have the choice, limit customers inside to extremely small numbers (1 per 20sq m if I remember rightly) or require vaccine passports.

The result is that even though the law requiring vaccine passports is only limited to larger shops, small shops are pretty much forced into it as otherwise they have to so limit entry that they can no longer trade. So you do need a vaccine passport to shop for food.

I don't feel restricted by this, in fact, i like it as it gives me a certain amount of comfort to think that all the people around me are also vaccinated

This is kind of the worst, sorry. They are human beings, not disease vectors.

Obesity is an eating disorder just like anorexia. Do people have to stop being anorexic too?

@EsmesRedPetticoat

I am constantly amazed at some people’s eagerness to fat bash on the flimsiest of excuses. This thread is a case in point!

It's not fat bashing, it's simply saying that people who are obese collectively cost the NHS billions, but there isn't much done about it and certainly you are not banned from McDonalds because you are fat.

Someone goes into hospital with covid because they weren't vaccinated and somehow that's terrible. I mean, having an injection (or two, or three) is much easier than losing weight, but that's not really the point.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

Obesity is an eating disorder just like anorexia. Do people have to stop being anorexic too?

It is an eating disorder for a minority. Most people just need to exercise more and eat less (rubbish).

Op you appear to be one of those people who are very selectively choosing how you word your opening post to try prove your point.

Yes Gibraltar has full vaccination`s , who said they prevent you catching COVID? The vaccinations are there to severely lessen the affect of COVID and prevent many many more dieing.

Actually Like with all other scaremongers why do you not mention the rate of deaths from COVID in Gibraltar, with a nice time line?
Oh yes that's right because a vast majority of deaths in Gibraltar have all been registered pre vaccine roll out and the death rate since has dropped massively after.

Unfortunately that does not fit your narrative to well now does it?

But obviously they can’t. People are designed to eat in times of plenty. High fat and sugar items are are easily available. If it was that easy everyone would be slim.

@UniBallEye

I don't understand all the worry and concern to be honest. In France and Ireland we've had these restrictions since the vaccine was rolled out. Restaurants etc will check and scan your vaccine as you enter, same with travelling. Your vaccine / PCR will be checked as you leave and enter countries.

I don't feel restricted by this, in fact, i like it as it gives me a certain amount of comfort to think that all the people around me are also vaccinated.

The NHS app is a pain though - you can't use it as a vaccine pass because you have to log in and scroll through so many screens to get to it, it takes ages. You can't screenshot the relevant page.

I have been to a couple of events in the UK that have asked for it and I've taken a paper copy. I don't object for the largest events or things like indoor concerts, but having to show one to buy a coffee or a meal is just ridiculous.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

But obviously they can’t. People are designed to eat in times of plenty. High fat and sugar items are are easily available. If it was that easy everyone would be slim.

I didn't say it was easy, I used to be about a stone heavier myself, but it's not a medical condition for most people.

Forcing a trial vaccine on the masses and anyone daring not to take the vaccine will lose their jobs and in some countries their liberties, it all sounds familiar no? Anyone with common sense knows this is wrong! Who is anyone to dictate what others do with their bodies and what they put into it? Seeing as its a trial drug the governments should actually wait to find out the longterm side affects before they force anyone to have it.

My own opinion