to be alarmed by vaccine passports

[Loustew12]

Am I the only person who find the proposed extension of this alarming, given what's happening in Austria, where police are out checking the unvaccinated are hiding among the vaccinated? Gibraltar has 100% vaccination rate and cases are through the roof. So clearly being vaccinated doesn't 'stop the spread'. Therefore, there is no logical or justification for segregating society. It's surely a slippery slope to go down?

@Worldgonecrazy I’d love to engage with how a fat person isn’t the same as extremely contagious virus that caused the entire world to shut down but I’ve a new rule that I don’t engage once anti vax bingo has been completed. I know now that these people are so far down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole it wools be an absolute waste of my time. It is amusing to read though!

The issue is we are now living in a society where the frog in the boiling water analogy is in full effect.
We have said yes and conformed to things in so many stages that a lot of people are oblivious to how crazy this idea actually is.
When will enough be enough? We were told once the vaccine came out that would be it, now we need boosters, now we need vaccine passports.

We don’t have measles vaccination passports, HIV negative passports, STI free passports. The virus will spread and continue to spread despite the vaccine being taken up. I understand that it’s ‘less deadly’ once your vaccinated but surely that just needs to be enough now.

The idea of the unvaccinated having to lockdown in other countries is terrifying to me.

I have chosen not to be vaccinated. I have also chosen not to be obese and to take care of my mental and physical health as best as I can personally control.

There are so many issues that put a strain on our NHS that are simply not addressed or challenged due to fear of triggering or offending people, but many people don’t give a shit about trampling over peoples personal and free will when it comes to the vaccine. Whether people like it or not, obesity is a massive contribution. I am not fat shaming here, but these are simply facts. If I am selfish or not being responsible for choosing not to take a vaccine for this virus, I will challenge why people are able to live such sedentary and unhealthy lifestyles that increase their risk of serious illness tenfold and rely on science and free healthcare to pick up the pieces.

Everyone has a choice and vaccination is no different.

Yes, you can’t catch fat from someone, but our whole society suffers at the hands of obese people who need treatment for the health implications it has. The reason for all these precautions and restrictions is so that our healthcare system doesn’t crumble. There are many other avenues to address before imprisoning those who choose to exercise their right to free will.

The fat people argument is a "Look over there" one. Just because you can point to one risk factor doesn't mean that we should ignore an easy remedy for a much wider risk factor

It seems to me that all arguments against the vaccine fall away when you look at the decrease in death rates in countries which have it.

@HeyDugeesCakeBadge

Honestly, why on earth can't people see the bigger picture with vaccine passports? As a previous poster says, once we give up freedoms and allow ourselves to be restricted due to a certain status we are never getting them back - where does that end? I'm actually gobsmacked that so many people are for them, but this is the 'I'm alright jack' attitude that all those that have had the vaccine accuse those who have chosen not to be. You can choose to live in a country where the state restricts freedom due to refusing an invasive medical procedure but I sure don't want that and will fight against it.

If, in the countries with them, you have a pass, then what freedoms are you giving up? I'd argue also that "I'm alright Jack" is pertinent to people who have been saying they won't have the vaccine because they "aren't at risk" or who criticise people for wanting to vaccinate their teenagers. So, all in all, fairly ironic.

We were told once the vaccine came out that would be it, now we need boosters, now we need vaccine passports.

That's 3 lies in one sentence. Pretty good going.

The unvaccinated aren't being locked down anywhere, as the posters in Austria have confirmed. Unless you consider going out to work, shop and church to be "locked down".

That makes no sense. You can't catch fat from someone else

www.nytimes.com/2007/07/25/health/25cnd-fat.html

Well, socially contagious anyway 😂

@Platax

The fat people argument is a "Look over there" one. Just because you can point to one risk factor doesn't mean that we should ignore an easy remedy for a much wider risk factor

It seems to me that all arguments against the vaccine fall away when you look at the decrease in death rates in countries which have it.

I would argue that fatness is a wider risk factor than whether someone is vaccinated or not,

A fit and healthy person is extremely unlikely to suffer anything other than a bad cold, if they have any symptoms at all. Fat people are much more at risk of serious illness with or without vaccination.

If it is hospitalisation that matters, rather than cases, then fatness is a major contributory factor to those hospitalisations.

But vaccine passports are not about controlling a virus. That is obvious from how and where they are being implemented.

The unvaccinated are an example of ‘othering’,someone to point a finger of blame at.

The U.K. is a nation of shockingly poor health. We could fix that but choose not to. Why is that?

I thought this graph from a French paper is helpful about admissions to critical care for vaccinated vs unvaccinated

@Worldgonecrazy

Having the vaccine reduces the chance of hospitalisation and serious illness.

So does not being fat.

One makes money for pharmaceutical and health industries.

One doesn’t. One also has long term additional benefits for the NHS.

Amazing that only one method is being promoted.

If, instead of vaccine passports, we had BMI passports there would be an outcry. And before someone points out BMI measurements aren’t perfect measurements of fitness, I would point out that vaccination status is not a perfect measure of either immunity or contagious status.

Imagine telling on yourself like that!

@PAFMO

We were told once the vaccine came out that would be it, now we need boosters, now we need vaccine passports.

That's 3 lies in one sentence. Pretty good going.

The unvaccinated aren't being locked down anywhere, as the posters in Austria have confirmed. Unless you consider going out to work, shop and church to be "locked down".

Were we told this though?

I can remember Whitty / Vallance saying that the 1st vaccines wouldn't be the last vaccines. That suggests to me that they expected there to be further variants and requirement for updated vaccines.

I think one advantage the UK has over many others - our CMO / CSO recognise that this will become endemic and that we need to learn to live with it. Other countries are now getting to that point.

The best way to get there is with vaccines, which means the infections you get will hopefully not make you very ill.

There really is such a basic lack of understanding by so many on both sides of the arguments. We are trying to get to the point where we can live with Covid. Will that mean vaccines for vulnerable every year along side Flu - most likely. It will probably become a less serious disease for those who refuse vaccination too in the long term.

But we need to get there 1st - and vaccines make that possible.

Gibraltar has 100% vaccination rate and cases are through the roof.

What a way to (deliberately?) post a misleading statistic.

Gib has given 90K vaccines to a 60k population. Given you need two vaccines to be fully vaccinated means half the population are not yet fully vaccinated.

@PAFMO where is the lie?

Our restrictions have been lifted due to the vaccine introduction, so why is it wrong to assume that that was the ‘road to freedom’?

So there isn’t talk of boosters? There’s no talk of vaccine passports?

Struggling to see what I am supposedly fabricating here.

Gib has given 90K vaccines to a 60k population. Given you need two vaccines to be fully vaccinated means half the population are not yet fully vaccinated

Are you including the apes? The population is at least 25,000 less than you say - www.gibraltar.gov.gi/statistics/faqs

When I was young and travelled there were some countries that required me to get a vaccine in order to visit. I didn't bat an eye.

I really could not give a shit about the so called ‘rights’ of the unvaccinated. The NHS is on its knees, partly due to us running very few intensive care beds so if just a few beds are taken up by Covid patients things start to fail.

Get the vaccine and you are much much less likely to end up in intensive care, protecting all of society. If locking down all unvaccinated is what it takes for them to see how selfish (and thick!) they are being, so be it.

Excellent. Maybe now I will be able to visit restaurants, cinemas and pubs and feel (and be) a lot safer.

I am totally fed up of having my freedoms curtailed because of the willfully stupid.

@dudsville

When I was young and travelled there were some countries that required me to get a vaccine in order to visit. I didn't bat an eye.

Unless you travelled around Africa, this is pretty unlikely. Most places have dropped these requirements for tourists for several decades ago at this point.

There are RECOMMENDED vaccines, which is different. I got the rabies series and Japanese encephalitis due to recommendations, they weren’t an entry requirement. It’s a big difference.

I agree with the obesity comments. They cost the country a lot more long term with Heath problems, PIP/dla payments, there's even people who get cleaners paid by the council because they are to obese to clean their own homes (true fact check it out.)
If people don't want the vaccine then fair play to them they have their reasons, them not having the vaccine doesn't put you at any more risk of being poorly.

If locking down all unvaccinated is what it takes for them to see how selfish (and thick!) they are being, so be it

All it does is show how cruel and stupid those in power are.

I am totally fed up of having my freedoms curtailed because of the willfully stupid

It’s the government taking away your freedom, not an unvaccinated 20-year-old. Sooner you realise this, the sooner we can get back to normal.

In my home country, compliance has only led to further restriction. It’s sad to see

I honestly can’t fathom how people genuinely find it easier to believe that vaccines and vaccine passports are some globally orchestrated scheme to curtail people’s freedoms. Or that governments are purposely injuring its citizens with a dodgy vaccine.

Over, we have a novel virus that has killed millions globally and countries are trying to protect their citizens and health care institutions.

Who is orchestrating this master plan? What are they going to gain? It’s utter bollocks - just get vaccinated like the billions of other people on the planet, so we can put an end to this madness. The same way we have with over highly infectious diseases.

We don’t have measles vaccination passports, HIV negative passports, STI free passports
All of those are either not easily transmissible just by being in the same room or fairly rare because most people are vaccinated. Pretty poor example!

Where I live we have vaccine passports and most people are in favour because we have had enough of this now! I'm in favour.

Fat people are running the planet.

True fact

*ruining

Although maybe there's something else in that.... 🤔

I honestly can’t fathom how people genuinely find it easier to believe that vaccines and vaccine passports are some globally orchestrated scheme to curtail people’s freedoms

I wouldn’t say orchestrated.

It’s like security theatre in airports. You know and I know that throwing away bottled water in airports and getting your shoes examined by security does nothing to stop terrorism. But we have to comply.

Once America did it, many other countries followed suit. No one asked for proof they did anything to stop terrorists. And here we are, dumping our water, emptying our pockets and taking out our laptops over twenty years later.

Now we are threatened with a health security state, again no proof any of their measures work.

You have to push back against dumb government.