Pissed of at being hit on

[CloneWars]

NC for this.

I joined a local sports team a few months ago. There's often joint training with the men's team and we also play mixed games. One particular guy was really friendly and welcoming and I thought we were building up a bit of a friendship. I should point out at this point, I do not/have never fancied this guy.

We have a WhatsApp group for both teams but then he started messaging me privately. Initially it was all to do with the sport, he was very complimentary about me etc, having a bit of banter but then he started to test the water, started saying a few things that made me feel a bit uncomfortable, which I tried to bat off. He's now become quite blatant (via message) about the fact that he'd like to shag me.

I'm really pissed off because firstly he's married with kids and secondly that he's taken a bit of (what I thought) was friendly banter and is trying to get his end away. I've tried to make it clear that I'm not interested but he's pretty persistent.

I now feel like I either have to tell him to fuck off - which is going to make things really awkward as he is quite influential at the sports team. Or walk away from the whole thing, which would be so disappointing as I really enjoy going and there aren't any other teams in the local area. Or, try and distance myself but accept that things are going to be awkward.

I'm not sure what the AIBU is - because I know that I'm not! I'm not fucking interested in this bloke but I just don't know the best way to handle it. Help!

Remember when texts used to cost 10p and you’d have to save your credit? Well think of him like that. Is he worth 10p? Nah. Don’t reply.

What I realise from this thread is that I struggle to see a real difference between banter and flirtation.

Banter is all about social bonding, often to do with establishing in and out groups. In an all male environment it's a kind of overt flirtation across a large group to establish who the 'people like us' are and draw them together in a mutual love-in, while excluding the ones 'we don't fancy' and ridiculing their 'unattractiveness'. It's basically saying 'we're the sexy ones here and you're not'. Sexy / powerful, are they really that different, in terms of male self-perception?

Social bonding rituals between hetero men and women is always going to be about sex, when the man/men involved see women solely or primarily in terms of sex and see their own sexiness as being the same thing as social capital / attention / power.

Banter with people is mutual ego-stroking, with jokes. Which is the same thing as flirtation, isn't it?

So the fundamental problem here is that this bloke views women as sexual objects. He was never going to be friends with OP.

But when I think of 'banter' I've had with men, it has always been part of a flirtation. Even when I've never been anything other than friends with the man, I know there's a bit of attraction there. As I think there is in most male / female friendships.

Women can be very naive about men. It's kind of nice, I guess, to think well of men. I think well of men, in theory. But I've learned the hard way that naivety in practice is dangerous.

I get the impression OP was set up (unintentionally) badly by her brothers (and wider family), to see herself as 'one of the lads', when in fact men outside her family see her very much as a woman.

Did you get no notion of male views of women from listening to your brothers and interacting with their friends OP? Probably they're all much better people than sporty sleazeball here but still, some hint?

Assertiveness is excellent and the ability to bite back, stand up for yourself, join in and have fun is great. But not having any idea how others see you, that you can't identify out of 'sexual object' if that is how someone views all (young, fit, hetero) women, is well, dangerous.

Which makes me think we need to be much more honest about male sexuality, plus the wide range of different male attitudes towards women, that are entrenched in society, with all girls.

Doubtful that OP would have had that “full frontal” exchange with her brothers. Nor another woman.

And it’s not an exchange two straight men would have with one another either.

This isn’t behaving “like one of the guys.” Making comments to let someone of the opposite sex know you were watching them dancing is a blatant way to show interest.

The “woman as ignorant and innocent” theme is embarrassing and denigrating to the reputation of women. OP is in her 30s. She’s not a child.

Dangerous is definitely the right word. The ability to engage in banter gives a false sense of equality and power, which isn't backed up by reality.

In my experience, when women try to speak up openly in this sort of scenario, no matter how damning the evidence, the men will close ranks, female bystanders will often look away out of self-protection, and the woman will be the one who is ostracised as being 'difficult'.

Lots of people will say 'six of one and half a dozen of the other' or 'there's two sides to every story', despite the blame clearly resting solely on the man's side. No-one wants to be the person who puts their head above the parapet and points the finger where it belongs.

As women, we can (and should) object to this, but we also need to acknowledge the reality of the world we live in and apply self-care. A woman who engages in ambiguous, potentially flirty, banter will often be viewed just as harshly as the man who then offers to send a dick pic to her. It may not be right, but it's how it is.

OP, I feel your pain. As I have gotten older, experience has taught me that (very really) men and women can be mates as (so many) men always do this. The only men I can comfortably hang out with these days with non of this creepy sexual BS rearing it's ugly head is the partners of friends and my sisters and my Dad (and the dog as technically he's male). Sad times,

Anyway, block him. He'll panic as he's married and he knows he's offended you and hopefully back off.

You say "I now feel like I either have to tell him to fuck off - which is going to make things really awkward as he is quite influential at the sports team..."
He's already made it very awkward! Don't think about 'appearing rude' either. He is being outrageously inappropriate and on top of that, it's disrespectful to you to think he can talk to you this way. Men like this rely on no one ever blowing their cover. Tell him if he doesn't back off, you're sending the screen shots to his wife and publishing them in the group.

@lottiegarbanzo

I get the impression OP was set up (unintentionally) badly by her brothers (and wider family), to see herself as 'one of the lads', when in fact men outside her family see her very much as a woman.

Did you get no notion of male views of women from listening to your brothers and interacting with their friends OP? Probably they're all much better people than sporty sleazeball here but still, some hint?

Assertiveness is excellent and the ability to bite back, stand up for yourself, join in and have fun is great. But not having any idea how others see you, that you can't identify out of 'sexual object' if that is how someone views all (young, fit, hetero) women, is well, dangerous.

Which makes me think we need to be much more honest about male sexuality, plus the wide range of different male attitudes towards women, that are entrenched in society, with all girls.

Sounds a lot like the "boys will be boys" defence to me....

@Yousexybugger

Ok, so if I understand it, you're worried you might have said a bit too much whilst genuinely thinking it was just a laugh and in keeping with the club banter.

If you're not happy just blocking, and want a diplomatic approach (not that he deserves it but I get that you don't want problems at the club), what about 'I think this banter is going a bit far now! Obviously nothing like that is going to happen but I'd rather not keep making these jokes with a married man. Let's rein it in, shall we?'

That way you're not accusing him and are heading off at the pass any 'woah, I was only having a laugh!' responses. But, if he wants to continue, he's going to have to admit he isn't joking.

I would personally be blocking him and you're well within your rights to do so, after his inappropriate remarks but if you're worried about repercussions, this might be one approach.

This I think is the best approach.

Does it @ToniHargis ? That's not what I believe, or thought I was writing, at all. I don't agree that saying we should have better knowledge of something, legitimises that thing. Some men are predatory, objectifying, manipulative arseholes. Does saying that out loud equate to saying it's ok? I don't think so.

@lottiegarbanzo

Does it *@ToniHargis* ? That's not what I believe, or thought I was writing, at all. I don't agree that saying we should have better knowledge of something, legitimises that thing. Some men are predatory, objectifying, manipulative arseholes. Does saying that out loud equate to saying it's ok? I don't think so.

You ask - "Did you get no notion of male views of women from listening to your brothers and interacting with their friends OP? Probably they're all much better people than sporty sleazeball here but still, some hint?" Not only does this sound like she should have (had an idea), it ignores the fact that brothers don't usually talk to their sisters this way. You're also saying that a woman "can't identify out of" being seen as a sexual object - which takes the onus off men not to see us as sexual objects. So yes, by telling a woman she basically should have known better, you put the onus on women to do something about men's behaviour because it's wired in and it's never going to change. This attitude is part of why it might never change.

What’s always worked for is is to say something like ‘that would be lovely , I’ll thank your wife for letting you when I call her”

Don’t engage 🤷🏻‍♀️

You are giving this cretin the attention he is craving.

You will get to a point where you get so fucked off with him that you’ll be outright rude. These men push you to it

I really do disagree with you ToniHargis.

Of course brothers don't talk to their sister that way but they do talk to each other about other women.

Do you think you can wish yourself out of being viewed as a sexual object by the kind of men who view women that way? I wish! I truly do.

Knowing that there are plenty of men who do view women as meat is useful and important knowledge and I think we need to more open about it to girls, as I said earlier.

None of that says it's ok for men to be that way.

None of that says women cause men to be that way either.

Naming the problem is always useful.

Hi op, just say something along the lines of-you don’t seem to have realised that I don’t enjoy your banter, So I am going to block you now. You don’t have to talk about his marital status, or justify yourself. Just be chilly and clear.
Do screen shot and also tell your boyf what’s going down just in case this man tries to get there first.
If he asks why you’ve blocked him (at the club) say the same. I don’t enjoy your banter but you wouldn’t stop. He may try to persuade you to unblock him. Just say no and walk away. If he creates a difficulty do not be afraid of then making a scene in public by calling him out. Chances are he’ll of done this to others and no one will be on his side.

Tell him you’d love to have a coffee with his wife and maybe you could bring your boyfriend too !!!!

Get a grip OP
Tell him to fuck off and block him 🙄

@lottiegarbanzo

I really do disagree with you ToniHargis.

Of course brothers don't talk to their sister that way but they do talk to each other about other women.

Do you think you can wish yourself out of being viewed as a sexual object by the kind of men who view women that way? I wish! I truly do.

Knowing that there are plenty of men who do view women as meat is useful and important knowledge and I think we need to more open about it to girls, as I said earlier.

None of that says it's ok for men to be that way.

It's not about 'wishing' anything away; it's about reframing everything to so we focus on how to stop men doing this instead of inspecting what women did and didn't do. There is NO contributory element to sexist behaviour and asking a woman how or why she didn't pick this up from brothers, colleagues, whatever - keeps the focus on the woman's behaviour. Perhaps leaving the questions out next time would make your point sound less like victim-blaming.

@unname

No wonder he thinks you are interested. You’re engaging in crude “banter” with a married man who offered to send you nasty pictures and you are still messaging with him?

If you weren’t interested you would have a) not engaged in the first place and b) blocked him the moment he wrote anything suggestive.

This 👍

Jeez.
This is absurd.
The man is a fucking tool.

Just write,

Blocking...

Then block.

So I actually asked him straight up the other night, are you being serious or is this all just a joke. His response? Oooh well there's only one way to find out

If my husband sent a message like that we’d be over.