To ask why having children is such an expectation?

[stereeotype]

If it wasn't an expectation of your family, friends, society...would you really have had the burning desire for children?

It's such a societal expectation that I genuinely think it is what persuades a lot of people to have them.

I'm ambivalent about children and have posted a few times recently about it but just wandered if it wasn't for external pressure would you really genuinely have seen children as a sensible decision?

It would also be great to hear from those who didn't give into pressure and are later in life and happy with the decision they made - I don't seem to hear many of those accounts either on MN or IRL

the 10 years they kept asking
Seriously? Who is that invested in someone else having children?!

'Who is that invested in someone else having children?!'

It's fascinating, isn't it? Why indeed?! It's quite something that not having children is so appalling to some people that they would harass you about it to such an extent

@Echofallen

Hi sorry I don't understand? I'm married, I wrote that at the start of the comment! I'm fine at relationships but being wholly responsible 24/7 for a tiny vulnerable creature (a baby) wouldn't work with me. I'm way too forgetful, anxious and disorganised among other things. Like someone else said I think you need to really want a kid, and even then it's going to be a huge change and quite difficult at times no matter how prepared you are.

Thanks for replying, it's the 24/7 responsibility that isn't something you want. I guess majority of romantic relationships don't require that level of input

@oxfordgreen are you from an Indian/South Asian family?

oxfordgreen All of us internalize these values including female relatives!

I didn’t feel much societal pressure, more of an intense, visceral emotional desperation for a baby, that I can’t help think is hormonal/biological. Some of my friends don’t have it so making the decision not to have kids feels simpler.

I’m currently pregnant and I have to say it annoys me when people say you have to want a child “100%” or be “100% committed” or don’t do it. I have had anxiety in the past and that’s just not how my mind works. For me there felt like baby rational reasons not to have a child (mental health/disability stuff, still renting, career, the climate!) but set them against the intense emotional desire to be a mother and there was no contest, for me. I do wish people would stop speaking in platitudes and absolutes when it comes to these decisions. It’s very human to weight these questions up and very human to have doubts.

I’m really happy that I’m becoming my parent and lots of my friends are really happy they aren’t!

'It’s very human to weight these questions up and very human to have doubts.'

That's very true. I think it's very common to feel some degree of uncertainty, whichever side of the parenting decision you land on

I am way too selfish to have kids. I used to think 'maybe one day' and I liked the thought of a mini me.

But no, I like my comforts and own time too much. I work with little kids so get to spend time with them anyway!

I don't know how much of it was subconsciously suggested to me, but I only ever remember really wanting kids. As a child I thought it, as a teen, when in my 20s. I knew all I wanted was to be a mother and nothing else was as important. I found it so hard being single in my mid 20s as it felt like kids were a long way off. I met dh age 27 and we both wanted to get married, own a house and have children asap. I had my kids aged 30, 32 and 35 and have never been happier. I feel very lucky now.

'I work with little kids so get to spend time with them anyway!'

And that means that you know loads more about what is involved in parenthood than many non parents do

[quote BudgeSquare]@oxfordgreen are you from an Indian/South Asian family?[/quote]
Yes well guessed!

I’m 52 and have never wanted children. Never had pressure from my friends or family. I have 5 girlfriends who have children, I have never wanted to swap places with them and many more friends who are child free by choice. I grew up and still live in London, maybe that’s a factor?

The feeling... for me it was an absence, an ache, a desire. Like being hungry or thirsty. For a small person that was entirely my responsibility, to love and to cherish. It was that basic and I think that's why it was so difficult for me to understand that not everyone feels it, until I actually grew up a bit.

For a small person that was entirely my responsibility, to love and to cherish.

You see, that would terrify me. I think I'd go one of two ways - either be anxious and over-protective to the point where it was damaging, or be utterly negligent and sit downstairs drinking to blot out the crying baby. Quite probably a toxic combination of both.

The responsibility of a puppy almost broke my nerves but fortunately he was very soon past his 'childhood'. We had 14 lovely years with our dog and I miss him every day (he passed away last year) but I still remember the terror when he was tiny and dependent.

This thread has been real eye opening, thanks to all the comments,

It's also provoked so much more anxiety in me. I feel doomed either way - doomed having kids and doomed not to,

This is a horrible situation I never thought I'd be in but my clock is ticking real loud and I'm scared. Really scared to make the wrong decisions.

I worry that when I miscarry I feel anger instead of sadness. I worry that I don't like the company of kids and find them boring. So why am I doing this?

I also worry that I will feel deep regret in 10-15 years from now. I find it hard to occupy myself and feel my mental health is vulnerable - I just feel really sick with confusion right now

I also worry that I will feel deep regret in 10-15 years from now.

I don't regret my decision. There was a 'defining moment' in that I had a hysterectomy when I was 42 - obviously that would have been late in the day to have children but it was still a technical possibility - I did very carefully examine myself beforehand for any possibility I might regret it - I found none.

@Amillionnc

These are not twatish or goading questions at all. I promise I just don’t understand the ‘feeling’ people (usually women) talk about- for those that had children because of the biological urge can you explain it please? I genuinely don’t get it. What was the need or drive; being pregnant, child birth, staring at a mini version of yourself? What was it that made you think ok I’m happy to sacrifice sleep, time, money, freedom, body, a stress free life. Why did you believe your life would be happier or complete by making another human being?

I know what you mean. I'm not being goady either but the biological urge I don't understand.

I get the ticking clock as I hear like tick ticking loud and clear! But I don't have a biological urge - if I do have a child it will purely be based on the desire to add something different to my life and enrich it - might be a misguided reason to have kids but I'm being honest.

@stereeotype where's the anger directed? When you had your losses? Because that was me, that still is me. As I was saying earlier I spent half my adult life losing babies, I'm absolutely broken but I'm also fucking angry. I'm angry that something so natural came so hard to me. I'm angry that I lost so many children. Im angry at the person it made me, the fear. It never goes away. I'm fucking furious every time I see a case where a child has been deliberately harmed.

But I think that anger is grief, and I think people feel grief in different ways. Perhaps even the fact that you are looking so deeply into your feelings tips the balance to deep down you do wish to keep trying.

I suppose the options are stop, and make peace with that decision. Which is where I was when my first then came along, or keep trying and explore what that brings.

I would however, from personal experience, recommend counselling because I never did until it was far to late and I deeply regret that. My entire pregnancies and motherhood has been damaged by what went before.

@stripetop anger that I wasted ten weeks of my life caring for something that disappeared. Angry that other people have kids so easily and I didn't. Angry that due to my ambivalence I wish it happened straight away so I didn't have all this thinking time to consume me.

Angry when I see other pregnancies work out just fine (I know that's really harsh but it's true)

Anyone else ambivalent I found this useful (ignore the fact it's a cartoon!)

There is definitely a biological urge. There is even an urge to protect people biologically related to you. This is seen in the animal kingdom also. It isn't tangible which makes it harder to understand imo.

May be pressure is part of it but biological clock is definitely real. However, the social pressure is less now for women to have kids. At least in this country. ( UK) I do think that women who do not have them do not know what they are missing. For me the best experience of my life. On the other hand if I would have not pregnant easily I would not go through treatments specially in my forties to have kids. There definitely pro and cons and happiness is possible regardless if you have them or not.

@stereeotype yes that's the same as me. So I would question whether you are ambivalent, I think you are grieving, rightly so. My heart goes out to you because it's a fucking awful place to be.

One thing I will say, OP, is that people (especially on MN!) tend to obsess about the responsibilities of the early childhood years and ignore the fact that the majority of your parenting will be to adults, IYSWIM.

Yes, having a tiny baby is intense, but it passes so quickly. Once they're older children, they become far more interesting and independent- and then they get into their 20's, 30's, 40's and they're adults who don't need you in the same way at all.

I'm going to see a film with my DD (16) tonight (we're in the US), because we enjoy each other's company. Personally, I've found that parenthood gets better and better - I know that's not everyone's experience, but DH and I just don't live the restricted, child-centric lives that seem to be the obsession on MN. Perhaps we're the exception, but we're not broke, exhausted, and under-travelled/no social life, etc.!

@Cameleongirl this is very refreshing to hear, thank you