To ask why having children is such an expectation?

[stereeotype]

If it wasn't an expectation of your family, friends, society...would you really have had the burning desire for children?

It's such a societal expectation that I genuinely think it is what persuades a lot of people to have them.

I'm ambivalent about children and have posted a few times recently about it but just wandered if it wasn't for external pressure would you really genuinely have seen children as a sensible decision?

It would also be great to hear from those who didn't give into pressure and are later in life and happy with the decision they made - I don't seem to hear many of those accounts either on MN or IRL

Now I have kids. It's hard, but how can you regret it, if they are the core of your life and life progress? t's hard to go to school as well, but you would not want to stay in kindergarten forever.

So you see people without children as being in the “kindergarten” of life forever? Not really living but playing at life?

Interesting thoughts. I've had the opposite experience to some PPs insofar as I'm in a highly-skilled demanding profession but the vast majority of my colleagues are choosing to have children - in a lot of cases, larger families (I know of over a dozen colleagues with 3 or 4). So I do think it's a little more nuanced than simply education meaning fewer babies.

I also disagree that there isn't societal expectation here. It may well be worse in other places, but it definitely exists. I've been to enough networking events where people have looked at me as if I've two heads, to know that!

@user1478172746

I wanted to be a mother from an early age. Most of our role play games involved me being a mother of six 😁. And husband somewhere traveling, died at war etc. Not important. Later I dreamed of being teenage mother - it seamed romantic. Being a mother is one strong, true motivation in my life, other things are more about conforming in society. Even marriage and career. Now I have kids. It's hard, but how can you regret it, if they are the core of your life and life progress? It's hard to go to school as well, but you would not want to stay in kindergarten forever. I see children as part of human life cycle. Not for everyone, but for most. It is fascinating how we are the tapestry of humanity - from grandparents and our parents to us, our children, their children. /Young females usualy don't experience strong urge for sex in comparison with males. I don't think females are biologically motivated only by sex, not babies. What about monky experiment, where litttle female monkeys took care of sticks or dolls as babies, but male monkeys where fascinated by cars with wheels?

People do regret it. It isn't spoken about as it's hugely taboo, but they do regret it. My mum did - she's told me so.

Not even touching the kindergarten comment. I don't consider my life as being stuck in pre-school but you do you.

@audacityBaby

Out of interest, do you have a partner/are you married?
My question is more about where do you get emotionally validated/by whom and if you have somewhere to channel it?

I didn’t want kids as a kid, then when I was 12 my mum had my brother. I ended up doing a lot of the work of taking care of him, but I actually really enjoyed it. Because of that, and because I worked with kids- I was prepared for the work of parenting, and I really wanted to do it.

I do find it confusing when I meet people who have had little to no interaction with children and don’t seem interested in kids or like them all that much, but who had kids just because it’s “what you do” when you get to a certain stage in life.

I think parenting should be taught in schools. People should be aware of what they’re signing up for.

[quote zonky]@audacityBaby

Out of interest, do you have a partner/are you married?
My question is more about where do you get emotionally validated/by whom and if you have somewhere to channel it?[/quote]
Nope, single. Not sure I'm following the rest of your comment I'm afraid. I provide my own emotional validation insofar as I can't do anything about the fact that I can't have kids, so have to just try and be an interesting human being in other ways.

@AudacityBaby

I'm sorry if you can't have children and it's not by choice.

Emotional validation is an interesting one - I feel we need other people (be it family/partners/friends) usually to validate us emotionally. Otherwise, I feel we'd feel invisible? Of course we emotionally validate ourselves to a degree but I don't think it's the same...

Burning biological desire since my teens for me. I started babysitting in my early teens, have a professional career working with children and wanted kids as soon as possible. Listened to all of the advice about having a career and a life first. The career and getting a property were important but having a life wasn't really for me.
Had a few miscarriages which made me more desperate to conceive. I was devastated at the time.
I have a 3 and 1 year old and would like 1 more despite how full on it is and how little time I get for me and dh feels the same.
I don't judge you and know more people who are putting it off or not having any due to the huge commitment that it is. I think the pressure is higher in different circles. It's your life and we're all different so you do you, but equally some of us want 3 and don't want to be judged for that. Ignore the pressures

I definitely got the urge as I approached 30, and in the five/six months it took me to get pregnant it got stronger and stronger. But I agree, I think there's also an element of society being set up for people who have children, and it being difficult to imagine life without them. That said, I think if you have children because you don't know what else to do, you're probably running the risk of being unhappy.

OP you are absolutely right in that there is huge societal expectation and brainwashing from an early age that we must have children.So much so that I think many people completely lose their inner voice and feelings on this, so that even when they are well into adult hood they don't actually know.

I would say, be very careful unless you have a mad burning desire to have children. It's a slog, a lot of drudgery and worry. Would I do it again if I could go back? I love my kids but I wish I knew myself better then. I would have stayed childless and definitely not married.

It seems like society and family just seem to live to nag people asking when they are going to get married when they're going to have a child and then when they're going to have a second child otherwise it's not fair on the first child.

I have since realised that many of them actually do it out of jealousy because they see you free to enjoy your life. And so many people are stuck in unhappy relationships just waiting until their kids are grown so they can leave. You don't realise until you go into it how quickly and securely you are tied down.

It's funny because my OH is constantly talking to our kids saying "when you get married" or "when you have children..." and I have started correcting this by saying immediately "if you choose to have children.." I get nasty looks from my OH at this

[quote zonky]@AudacityBaby

I'm sorry if you can't have children and it's not by choice.

Emotional validation is an interesting one - I feel we need other people (be it family/partners/friends) usually to validate us emotionally. Otherwise, I feel we'd feel invisible? Of course we emotionally validate ourselves to a degree but I don't think it's the same...[/quote]
Without wanting to derail the thread too much, yes, I think feeling invisible is a problem. I don't have family (long story) and my life is very small. It is what it is. I have to just tell myself that things happen for a reason and if the reason isn't clear to me right now, it will be someday.

It's funny because my OH is constantly talking to our kids saying "when you get married" or "when you have children..."
That's actually quite peculiar.

I always knew I wanted children and did a lot of volunteering with children as a teenager. However in terms of pressure it was the opposite. I was pushed into academic success and a professional career. My mother obviously had children because it was expected and we were like a project to her, had to achieve in everything to validate her.
I had my three close together and still felt a strong urge to have more but realised I wouldn't cope. It hasn't been easy for various reasons but I'm certain I wouldn't have been happy without them. My closest friend pursued her career, married later and after one miscarriage decided not to keep trying. We respect each other's choices.
At the moment only one of my daughters wants children and I would never pressure them.
I think as my mother's generation pass on the societal expectations around motherhood will change and it will become a genuine choice whether or not to have children. I hope so, children should be wanted and loved for themselves not to fulfil someone else's ambitions.

These are not twatish or goading questions at all. I promise I just don’t understand the ‘feeling’ people (usually women) talk about- for those that had children because of the biological urge can you explain it please? I genuinely don’t get it. What was the need or drive; being pregnant, child birth, staring at a mini version of yourself? What was it that made you think ok I’m happy to sacrifice sleep, time, money, freedom, body, a stress free life. Why did you believe your life would be happier or complete by making another human being?

@GreyhoundG1rl

It's funny because my OH is constantly talking to our kids saying "when you get married" or "when you have children..." That's actually quite peculiar.

Please can you explain why. Is it me or is my OH odd?

I think you are being quite goady @Amillionnc as you've deliberatley used negative wording like 'staring at a mini version of yourself' and listing what you clearly consider to be the negatives.

As you asked, I just knew I wanted children. I didn't see the loss of sleep or money as a negative compared to the positives of having children. They bring me joy everyday and I love having our own family of 4. Its great watching them grow up and guide them now they are on the cusp of adulthood. No regrets.

I find this a very interesting thread.

So I was brought up in a rural, remote farming community. I was married at 18, before UNI. It took us twenty plus years to have a baby. I was a professional, solicitor albeit legal aid in the country so partner by the time I was 29.

Ten years into marriage, partnership established, yes absolutely the pressure was on to have children, but we couldn't. We lost eight babies, had many rounds of IVF fail and were told it would not happen. Hitting forty along came one then the next.

I spent over half my grown up life consumed by something I could not have, something that came easy to everyone else I knew. My job meant I was often removing children, yet I was unable to carry them. Excluded from so many things, school events in the community, whispers of why is she here, like I'm some kind of child catcher, now they want me on the PTA?

I'm now at home with mine, and it is so, so hard. I have no idea who I am anymore. Gone from conducting a jury trial to crying because the baby has a fever and the hospital is two hours away. I'm isolated, lonely, struggle to maintain a reasonable grown up discussion and have never had time away from both other than to have the second. I'm crippled by a sense of loss and anxiety I cannot begin to explain.

Would I change them, absolutely not. Was the expectation the same as the reality, absolutely not.

@Amillionnc

These are not twatish or goading questions at all. I promise I just don’t understand the ‘feeling’ people (usually women) talk about- for those that had children because of the biological urge can you explain it please? I genuinely don’t get it. What was the need or drive; being pregnant, child birth, staring at a mini version of yourself? What was it that made you think ok I’m happy to sacrifice sleep, time, money, freedom, body, a stress free life. Why did you believe your life would be happier or complete by making another human being?

@Amillionnc

Perhaps I'm not exactly in the category of people you're asking ie. those who had a biological urge but it definitely became an existential urge for me.

I was 38/39, yet another romantic relationship had broken down (following two decades of dating inc a marriage). I have a very small family (and elderly mother who lives in a different city to me and a sibling that lives abroad). A couple of good, close friends. Those are my emotional connections.

I wanted an ongoing emotional connection, a lifelong connection (not guaranteed but still better chances of it happening than in a romantic relationship). Ability to care/nurture/a new experience in life/a totally unique, life changing experience to me. I've had IVF with a sperm donor to achieve this (am still currently pregnant), very grateful the treatment worked. So a solo mother to be.

Before deciding to get pregnant, I was already feeling bored/unsatisfied by the routine of my 30s. Dating/romantic relationships/jobs/holidays. It all felt....sort of a repeat of my 20s? I simply wanted to experience pregnancy and child rearing. You mention sacrificing "sleep, time, money, freedom, body, a stress free life"... I live alone and I've had plenty of lie ins..and freedom to do what...go on more dates work longer hours in my job? Plenty of time to do what I want - and I feel I've done most of the things I've wanted. I've been a size 8 all my life, I've had a 'good run' with my body (fortunate) and if gets 'ruined' now so be it. So far my pregnancy has been easy and stress free. I didn't find being single and childless stress free, I found the freedom too crippling/anxiety provoking... So much time which I didn't know what to do with..the experience of pregnancy so far has been very visceral, different to what I'd imagined it would be like.

I never wanted kids and never felt any pressure to have them, I don't for a minute regret my choice.
I can't even imagine what feeling broody or hearing a biological clock ticking is like, it just never happened to me.

Please can you explain why. Is it me or is my OH odd?
Your dh is very odd. Sorry.

I've never felt the need to have kids and have never felt any social pressure either. It's your body.

I don’t have them and right from a very young age, I’ve always been adamant that I never wanted any. I adore the children in our life and genuinely enjoy spending time with them, but I’ve never felt a moment’s doubt that I made the right decision. I don’t feel like I’ve ever felt any pressure to have them either, and I’ve only ever been asked once why I don’t have them.

I find it quite interesting that DH regularly gets questioned about why he doesn’t want them and people are always shocked that he’s not at all interested in being a dad. But he is very good with kids and they do tend to flock to him, even if he’s never met them before, so he probably does come across as quite paternal.

[quote zonky]@audacityBaby

Out of interest, do you have a partner/are you married?
My question is more about where do you get emotionally validated/by whom and if you have somewhere to channel it?[/quote]
This is an interesting point. I’m an only child and lost my Mum in my 20’s so I was very aware that all my immediate family (my Dad) would also be gone some day-so I wanted to create a new family to love, IYSWIM. I definitely felt that I’d transferred the love I had for my Mum to DD and it just expanded when DS was born.

DH is from a large family, however, and his siblings are child free by choice. But they all have each other and their parents, I.e. they have those emotional bonds so perhaps they didn’t feel the need to have their own children? On reflection, I really believe that was part of their decisions, they are very emotionally attached to each other-and DH has both their love and his children’s!

I didn't feel any biological desire or social pressure, it was more an emotional decision. I wanted a family because I didn't have a nice one growing up, but that also made me very scared of doing it in case I didn't know how to be a good mother. It is really hard, especially as I've been a lone parents since they were very young, but they are the best thing in my life and I don't regret it at all.

These are not twatish or goading questions at all. I promise I just don’t understand the ‘feeling’ people (usually women) talk about- for those that had children because of the biological urge can you explain it please? I genuinely don’t get it. What was the need or drive; being pregnant, child birth, staring at a mini version of yourself? What was it that made you think ok I’m happy to sacrifice sleep, time, money, freedom, body, a stress free life. Why did you believe your life would be happier or complete by making another human being?

Hmm this is so hard to answer. It wasn't logical. I suppose like when you fancy someone even though you know they're inappropriate or intellectually below you or you're moving to Peru 3 weeks on Monday. It was just an... obsession? My life is a billion times happier for my children, on a day to day level because I adore them and they're fun and cute etc but also because it was my life goal. A bit like making partner in a law firm or travelling around the world would be a dream for others. And the experience is enough in itself, it's not about adult kids surrounding me at Christmas 2034 it is about living and breathing it now. I'm not sure that makes sense but that's how it was for me.