To ask why having children is such an expectation?

[stereeotype]

If it wasn't an expectation of your family, friends, society...would you really have had the burning desire for children?

It's such a societal expectation that I genuinely think it is what persuades a lot of people to have them.

I'm ambivalent about children and have posted a few times recently about it but just wandered if it wasn't for external pressure would you really genuinely have seen children as a sensible decision?

It would also be great to hear from those who didn't give into pressure and are later in life and happy with the decision they made - I don't seem to hear many of those accounts either on MN or IRL

'We love our quiet, calm existence. We love spending time together and have a good life'

Such a lovely comment to read 😊 how many people can honestly say they are so content? There is an expectation among some that women who don't have children are super active, very career driven, do loads of charity work etc. Great if that's your thing, but there is nothing at all wrong with having a quiet steady sort of life. Living life more or less on your own terms is a precious thing, and something to be treasured.

I agree, @Lottapianos. Everyone should make the right choice for them and not judge what others do. What suits one person wouldn't suit another, it's as simple as that.

I definitely don’t think the different when it’s your own thing should be used to beat child free women over the head with. It’s a completely valid choice to not have any. For me it is different when it’s my own though because I feel pretty indifferent towards other people’s kids but think mine are the best thing that ever happened like all the other unbiased parents out there

And it's not that different when you have your own. I mean it is in the sense you can't give them back and are 100% responsible for them, but if you dislike whining and early waking, and food refusal in other kids, you'll still hate it in your own.

@Lottapianos

'We love our quiet, calm existence. We love spending time together and have a good life'

Such a lovely comment to read 😊 how many people can honestly say they are so content? There is an expectation among some that women who don't have children are super active, very career driven, do loads of charity work etc. Great if that's your thing, but there is nothing at all wrong with having a quiet steady sort of life. Living life more or less on your own terms is a precious thing, and something to be treasured.

I agree - it's great to see this acknowledged. I have an average-paying middle-management job and no ambitions to reach the height of my profession; DH and I don't holiday abroad or do any sport or volunteering. I don't socialise much - two or three times a year I see friends, perhaps. I value my quiet life.

The small things like being able to have a lie in every weekend, only having ourselves to consider in choice of food and entertainment. Not having the worries associated with children such as when they are bullied, or ill, or fall in with the wrong crowd or do dodgy stuff online. Not having to care about leaving an inheritance.

I don't have kids and never want any. I have been told I am stupid for getting a 2nd dog but pressured relentlessly by the same people about having kids. It is dying a death now that I am 'past it' and people seem to have given up the ghost but the past 10 years have been relentless.

I have heard all the comments and so have grown to be quite rude in my responses back.

'The small things like being able to have a lie in every weekend, only having ourselves to consider in choice of food and entertainment'

Absolutely love this too. They are small things but actually HUGE in terms of quality of life and feeling contented

And having children is no guarantee that they will look after you. They may have emigrated by the time you need care, or they may simply not care.

And there's always the chance they themselves will need care all their lives. I once saw a heartbreaking documentary about adult care-home abuse, featuring the worn-out, middle-aged parents of a woman with profound learning difficulties - the poor daughter had been vilely abused in her care home - the parents had no choice but to have her in care as they were no longer physically able to cope with her needs, and they were devastated. It takes an awful lot to upset me on the television but I found myself with tears in my eyes at their situation.

@Lottapianos

'The small things like being able to have a lie in every weekend, only having ourselves to consider in choice of food and entertainment'

Absolutely love this too. They are small things but actually HUGE in terms of quality of life and feeling contented

I can't even imagine having to give up almost all my free time to attend to someone's needs, after a long week at work. Where's the joy in that?

Where's the joy in that?

Urgh.

@Lottapianos

'We love our quiet, calm existence. We love spending time together and have a good life'

Such a lovely comment to read 😊 how many people can honestly say they are so content? There is an expectation among some that women who don't have children are super active, very career driven, do loads of charity work etc. Great if that's your thing, but there is nothing at all wrong with having a quiet steady sort of life. Living life more or less on your own terms is a precious thing, and something to be treasured.

I’m another one who likes to see this acknowledged. I am quite introverted, I’m solitary by nature and live a very peaceful life in general. Yes, I socialise, but am not out on a weekly basis or anything like it. I love nothing more than coming home after a day at work and knowing as I put my key in the door that I’m heading into my sanctuary where I’ll have blissful solitude for the evening.

I think society tells a lot of lies to women, principally that they can't be happy or fulfilled without children. Or happy without a man for that matter. For a sizeable portion of people this just isn't true. Unless you're someone who wants/needs to have children, I think happiness comes from within ie you can be happy either way. Of course parents experience joys I will never know if I don't have children and I am fine with that. They also experience a lot of worry and stress that I won't know either. There are many ways to have a meaningful, fulfilling life.

I think happiness comes from within ie you can be happy either way.

@Cakemonger You're so right, being happy in yourself is key, whatever path you choose to take. And there are so many possible paths in life, it would be boring if everyone made the same choices!

It's heartening to hear from so many posters who feel they've made the right choices for them, regardless of social expectations and pressures.

Was completely ambivalent, decided to try, struggled to conceive, was given a 15% chance of ivf working. I was so, so upset / enraged / shattered by having to make the decisions to try or not when my friends just 'got' babies. 10 years later I'm happy not to have children but I find that absolutely no one acknowledges that it's complex - when they ask if you have kids and I say no they just change the subject and sometimes I wish I could talk about it. Even my own mother refuses to acknowledge it. So there are still unresolved feelings - but generally I love the life I have and it would be very different with a child in it.

'10 years later I'm happy not to have children but I find that absolutely no one acknowledges that it's complex'

Agree 100%. I never ever talk about the reasons why I don't have children outside of conversations like this where I know for sure I'm talking to like-minded people. Most people just don't get how complex and how personal it is. You can feel great sadness, anger, shame, alongside great relief and gratitude

'There are many ways to have a meaningful, fulfilling life'

This with bells on @Cakemonger

I always wanted children. I think it was a biological decision rather anything else. I was one of the first in my friendship group, didn’t consider money, career or logic in my decision.

It always just seemed that’s one of the key aims living things have, to have babies. I have quite a strong desire for grandchildren now too which I assume is a similar drive. However that is one completely out of my control lol and my adult children aren’t ready to go down that path at the moment.

I don’t think people should be pressured into feeling they should want or have children though. The reality is that it is a long, endless road of caring for others and often makes the family financially poorer. I did care work for a while and those without children often had more money, nicer houses etc.

Can anyone describe what this 'biological urge' feels like? I just don't understand it at all. When I see tiny newborns, I feel fuzzy inside and think 'aww cute' but is that it? Presumably not, because I'm sure men and children feel the same about tiny babies. How does the urge actually feel?

@CecilieRose

Can anyone describe what this 'biological urge' feels like? I just don't understand it at all. When I see tiny newborns, I feel fuzzy inside and think 'aww cute' but is that it? Presumably not, because I'm sure men and children feel the same about tiny babies. How does the urge actually feel?

I've no idea!

We had children because we'd agreed to have them pre-marriage and in terms of careers, finances, house etc the timing was objectively correct. There was no 'urge' on my part at least.

@CecilieRose

Can anyone describe what this 'biological urge' feels like? I just don't understand it at all. When I see tiny newborns, I feel fuzzy inside and think 'aww cute' but is that it? Presumably not, because I'm sure men and children feel the same about tiny babies. How does the urge actually feel?

I feel like that when I see a kitten or puppy, so I don't think it can be biological.

'How does the urge actually feel?'

I'll never know how much of it was biological and how was was to do with expectations and fitting in etc. For me, it was an ache, a longing to be pregnant, to feed and hold and nurture a baby, to have a family of my own, to be the central person in a child's life. It felt like something huge was missing from my life, I felt a great emptiness and felt very lonely. I also remember wondering what the hell I was going to do with my life if I didn't become a parent! I was obsessed with the idea of having a baby, and it was all I could think of some days. However, every time I considered making the idea a reality, I couldn't go any further with it. Something inside me just couldn't go there. I guess it was the wise, rational, 'head' part of me that knew it really wasn't right for me. It was a right head-melter!

I think biological urge is hard to explain if you don't have it. Interesting that some have said it may not exist at all but personally I think it does. I think if you have it, it overrides all logical thoughts and I also think, provided you don't encounter fertility issues, you are lucky. Because going down the conventional route is by and large easier and less angst ridden. The decision is taken for you, nice and simple.

Pronatalism is still very strong in our society, all mixed in with gender stereotyping. Little girls are given dolls and prams to play with. Art, media, literature is parenthood biased in the main. The Baby Matrix goes into a lot of detail about this and was quite eye opening for me.

In the future gender stereotyping will become more and more unacceptable (so damaging for so many reasons) so that hopefully it will become clearer for people what they actually want rather than what 'society' presumes for them.

Can anyone describe what this 'biological urge'

Constant thoughts - unhappiness wasn't a mother yet starting in infect my general happiness levels -starting to border on a need to at least start trying. Not very logical thought out based on reasons at all very much emotion drive though I was trying to hide my feelings from those around me.

With DH several month of dating and sex I turned a street corner near were we were living halls and got hit with a jolt of powerful emotion and realisaton I was in love - totally got from then on why cupid gets depicted with a bow and arrow.

Why pfb was born instant bond and love with her and her dark eyes- both DH and I - I was on a high for weeks afterwards even MWs noticed was in no danger of baby blues despite difficult family, bf set backs and velcro baby and some pain.

Doesn't mean DH and I haven't had problems or that I haven't at times felt overwelemed or fed up parenting.

I'm also very aware many people never fall in love like that and many mothers don't instally bond with their babies - in fact I'd say vast majority don't and some even say it must be a damaging myth.

I'm very logicical methodical person not driven by emotions so it's bizarre in many respects that I would feel these strong emotions/drives- I suspect it must be biology, homones at play stuff oustside my control. If circustances hadn't been okay and DH fully on board - very important to me that one - I would not have started TTC so while there was a bioligcal ugre driving me I wasn't completely without choice and reason.