To ask why having children is such an expectation?

[stereeotype]

If it wasn't an expectation of your family, friends, society...would you really have had the burning desire for children?

It's such a societal expectation that I genuinely think it is what persuades a lot of people to have them.

I'm ambivalent about children and have posted a few times recently about it but just wandered if it wasn't for external pressure would you really genuinely have seen children as a sensible decision?

It would also be great to hear from those who didn't give into pressure and are later in life and happy with the decision they made - I don't seem to hear many of those accounts either on MN or IRL

I’m 43. I never wanted children and when I met my DH at 39 we had a brief “THIS IS WHAT PEOPLE WHO LOVE EACH OTHER DO” period of TTC. Ultimately, we realised it wasn’t for us. He had a vasectomy last week and it’s like a weight of decision-making has lifted from our shoulders.

I love children and I absolutely love being around my friends and their kids. I often invite my friends to bring their children when we go shopping/away for weekends. So I totally understand the desire for them. I really think some women know from very early that they want to be mothers. I just never had that urge.

If you’re struggling I recommend going onto Instagram and exploring the experiences of the childfree community there. There’s a mix of women who are childfree by choice and childfree following infertility. It’s really useful to see that there’s a whole community of women who are existing and flourishing without children. You don’t have to be a mum to be valued. Xx

YABVU, and/or blind.

There is in fact nowadays a very strong societal pressure to NOT have children. The pressure is financial/economical. Having kids directly clashes with any serious career aspirations. And households typically need two salaries to survive.
The data speaks for itself: in this country (like the vast majority of developed countries), most women are in fact increasingly NOT having kids at all. The only reason the population isn't shrinking is immigration.

I'm in my forties, and most of my friends and colleagues (in a highly skilled profession) are child-free. Having kids was very much going against societal pressure. I did it for me, and despite the impact it would have (did have) on my career aspirations.

Wanted to have kids since I was a kid! And I knew I wanted to be a younger mum.
I have 2, that's enough for me. Both born when I was in my 20s.
I get horrendously broody and become a daemon during ovulation - must be biological/ hormonal as I don't want any more.

I think you’re right op.

I think biological urge is a thing but overstated - I never really felt that.

A lot to f what’s packaged as biological urge is actually social pressure. Funny that men don’t often get desperate urges to have kids, only to propagate them.

I also think @Valeriane's post is really insightful and agree with everything except that having children would make my life intellectually easier. I consciously decided against having children for many reasons both personal and societal. I don't have a maternal drive, there is mental illness in my family and I have a lot of other things I'd rather spend my time on - the thought of going to soft play or sitting through children's movies bores me to tears. I also think climate change and overpopulation (on a global scale) are huge issues - basically there are enough people in the world already. So for those reasons I couldn't justify having children intellectually. And on top of that I worried I would have a child with severe autism or other needs that would consume almost all of my time and attention. I have personality traits that mean I'm easily irritated and easily bored that mean childcare is just not for me (not proud of that but just stating the truth).

I have a "big" job that's interesting and pays well and I guess that means I don't have trouble when introducing myself the way @Valeriane described. I do have two stepdaughters who also come in handy for that, even though they were nearly adults when I married their dad. We get along well but it's not a motherly type relationship. Also I travel a lot on adventure holidays, read lots and get lots of sleep...and I spoil my two cats and dog.

I'm hoping when I'm old and need care there will be robots for that! And I have solid finances so should be able to pay for what I need. I don't regret not having children - well, I would say I'm 95% sure I've made the right decision for me. But there's always going to be a tiny bit of "what if". I think very few choices in life are black and white, although before having children a perso needs to be pretty damn sure. Oh, and I'm 49.

I think it's a basic biological drive to have kids in most people. Is it logical or sensible on an individual level, probably not.

Personally I never felt any pressure to have children, but DH and I started to discuss it after moving into a bigger house just after we both turned 30. I suppose if anything, I’d say it was half a biological clock thing and half a sense that there were life experiences we were potentially missing out on by not having any. Not that those experiences were by any means a requirement, but just something we both wanted to explore.

It was hard in the first couple of years as neither of us are really “baby people” and have very little family support, but it’s great now DS is a little bit older and developing his own personality. I also have a sense of “completeness” which I never felt before he was here and DH says the same.

Every fibre of my being hates children.

They're loud, snotty, inconsiderate little arseholes who always need something from you.

I have been on contraceptive since I was 13, and vowed I'd never become pregnant.

Then my IUD failed in 2019. Ha!

I never felt a maternal instinctive urge, but it was sort of just like: well. Guess I'm pregnant now.

No bad feelings about it.

I love DS more than anything and he's enriched my life so much.

Have I lost my sex drive? Yes. Is that because XH was a complete narcissist scumbag and nothing at all to do with having a child? Also yes.

I just have no intention having sex with a man when a consequence is possible pregnancy. Not because of the pregnancy, but because it seems like responsible caring men who aren't complete twats are in short supply these days.

I didn't (and still don't) have any desire or urge for children, however thought if I got pregnant 'I'd change' and 'As soon as I had my own child, I'd feel differently' - as it turns out, that was total and utter bullshit.

As soon as I got pregnant, I became exceptionally depressed to the point of suicidal and couldn't see a single positive thing about the experience - I terminated at 12 weeks and will never, ever try again.

I am now 39, married and child-free. My Husband (partner at the time) fully supported me through that awful period and even if I were to magically change my mind and say 'Let's try again', wouldn't agree as he saw how utterly wretched I felt.

Interestingly - there was absolutely NO pressure from family, or from friends... people who know me, know I enjoy deviating from the herd or being 'normal', so noone ever asked 'So when are you having children?' - not even my parents. The pressure was all in my head and from what I perceived - I genuinely thought that even if I didn't feel like I wanted a child, these magical hormones would happen that would make me happy about being pregnant and being a Mother....... Ha.

I absolutely love my life, it's so varied, so interesting and I've got 3 Nephews and Nieces who are awesome.

I don't regret being child-free at all - I regret ever trying to get pregnant in the first place (It literally took one time and then it happened) and believing some of the crap people spout but I don't regret terminating.

I now believe that if there isn't this massive overwhelming desire / urge, you really shouldn't have a child.

I've wanted children since I was maybe 16? I used to work at a riding stables and absolutely loved being around children and babies. When DH and I had DC1, it was like our life had meaning. That's not to slur/offend those who chose not to have children but my children are my pride and joy, the wonder of things through a child's eye is a beautiful thing to see. And kids are funny! The best part of my day is waking up to 'mummy' and a gentle kiss before I get cold toes pressed against me under the duvet.

It's a grind some days, it changes plans and it costs a fortune. I wouldn't change being a parent for all the tea in China

I'm late 40's, very happily married for over 20 years. For a long time we assumed that eventually we'd want children. By the time i neared 40, we realised that actually neither of us was fussed about children and there was no obligation so we didn't.

I think even if deep down you know that you don't want children there is an ambivalence. Most of us have quite a charmed version of family life in our head, the family dinners, Christmas, a close relationship with someone to support us in our times of need...
I'm always quite surprised when people say that they don't expect their children to look after them when they are older as they want to raise them to be independent and live their lives. For me, if I had had a guarantee of a fabulous relationship and support as I get older it might have swayed me. Are people really putting all these years of hard work and then expect nothing in return? Is the ultimate goal not that lovely relationship with adult children? Of course there is not guarantee and ultimately while love might be unconditional with small children it becomes very conditional as adults...

Ultimately for us we just didn't care enough to have children. We feel happy for our friends that decided to have them, we are happy that they are happy but we are not envious. We didn't want to put in the hard work, we didn't want the financial responsibility (I felt quite strongly that if i brought a child into the world i should pay for their education and do everything I could to give them a good start in life), we didn't think we could handle a child with special needs if it came to it, we didn't want a lifetime of being as happy as our least happy child.

Parenthood (or not) is a subject that interests me though and I always enjoy reading people's thoughts about it. So many parents seem to feel that their life is worse than before children and yet they still feel like it was worth it, I find it fascinating.

You can have two women being asked "so tell me about yourself". One will simply say "well, I'm a mum to two boys", and everyone will smile and just kind of accept it. The other woman doesnt have kids, and will almost have to work harder to explain who she is

Thoughtful post Valeriane

If it's purely a biological drive, then how do you explain the fact that as women become more educated, they have fewer children (or none) and have them later? Seems to me like once women have other options, children become less appealing (on a society-wide level).

Hi @stereeotype,
Your post resinates with me. I was ambivalent about having a baby but decided to TTC.

I then was pregnant this year. My mood plummeted and anxieties went through the roof. I deeply regretted being pregnant. I’m actually ashamed to say I terminated the pregnancy at 8 weeks.

6 months on I’m still devastated by the whole experience but things have become better.
I’m sad that a child’ is very unlikely to be part of my life now. It’s odd. I’m sad but relived all at the same time. It’s all very conflicting.

Never had any social pressure though. I think it’s almost quite the opposite these days. Women are very encouraged that it’s ok to be childfree and it’s much more the “norm”.x

I wanted to be a mother from an early age. Most of our role play games involved me being a mother of six 😁. And husband somewhere traveling, died at war etc. Not important. Later I dreamed of being teenage mother - it seamed romantic. Being a mother is one strong, true motivation in my life, other things are more about conforming in society. Even marriage and career. Now I have kids. It's hard, but how can you regret it, if they are the core of your life and life progress? It's hard to go to school as well, but you would not want to stay in kindergarten forever. I see children as part of human life cycle. Not for everyone, but for most. It is fascinating how we are the tapestry of humanity - from grandparents and our parents to us, our children, their children. /Young females usualy don't experience strong urge for sex in comparison with males. I don't think females are biologically motivated only by sex, not babies. What about monky experiment, where litttle female monkeys took care of sticks or dolls as babies, but male monkeys where fascinated by cars with wheels?

I cycled around the world a few years ago

By itself an excellent argument for being child-free, garlic!

I have one dd. It wasn't societal pressure - it was obvious to most observers that I had made a terrible choice of father for my child and it came at a bad time career-wise: I missed out irretrievably on some opportunities, which continues to cost me real pangs.

But it did feel like a visceral urge - I loved having a squishy baby and a stroppy toddler and a little girl who skipped and turned inept cartwheels beside me, and now a stylish teenager with a swagger and strong views about the world. I'm sure it's just bursts of oxytocin squirting into my brain and flooding my capacity for rational thought. Even if it's an illusion, though, there it is - joy.

I now believe that if there isn't this massive overwhelming desire / urge, you really shouldn't have a child.

I can subscribe to this, Fluffy.

@Pythone

If it's purely a biological drive, then how do you explain the fact that as women become more educated, they have fewer children (or none) and have them later? Seems to me like once women have other options, children become less appealing (on a society-wide level).

I think a lot of people look for meaning and purpose in their life - some achieve this via having careers. Others find it in partnerships - as we can see from other posters, they may have decided not to have children, but have still pursued the conventional norms of partnerships and marriage.

Very few people will find meaning in 'jobs' (and a lot of people have jobs rather than careers) - which are not meaningful/exciting/fulfilling/identity - defining. Maybe you want to come home to something other than being utterly exhausted by your pointless/boring job which you need to repeat ad infinitum. Maybe you don't have many friends (all busy with their own families) or your own family/partner. So you either have a partner and children, both or one or the other.

People want a connection to someone/more than one person. Having a child/children does provide that 'existential' grounding in a lot of cases.

I don't think I've experienced much social pressure to have children, to be honest. I live in London and probably the majority of my friends don't have children (I know most of them through a hobby which is quite hard to fit around dc). There's no stigma to not having children in my social circle.

I've never had the overwhelming urge to have a child, but to be honest my DS was unplanned, and things just fell into place. My family and friends were quite shocked when I announced my pregnancy as I've never been very touchy-feely around babies at all! I probably would have ttc eventually anyway, but if it didn't happen then I can't imagine being devastated or being desperate enough to use IVF or adopt - I would have been content enough with our life as it was pre-children.

@Valeriane I feel the opposite. Before becoming a mum I could've gone on about my career and my hobbies and my travel plans. Now I'm just like hmmm well I'm a mum. It's taken over my life somewhat. Not that I mind, but I can no longer define myself as a mountain climber who goes to monthly book club brunches and yoga classes

@ED81 did you get some help as there are forms of depression that pregnancy can bring on? It's very scary being pregnant even when much wanted. I didn't even tell my DH for week when I found out as I needed to process. At the first midwife appointment or booking in appointment they ask you about mood and hope. You can get a lot of support and certain medications . Hormones do crazy things.

@Findearthandreef Is the ultimate goal not that lovely relationship with adult children? No, honestly not. I mean, of course it will be lovely if that happens! But if you told me that my DC will end up (for example) emigrating to Australia and I'll hardly ever see them as adults, I'd still choose to have them as children. No question.

Free prescriptions/dental care aren't to encourage women to reproduce, they are to make sure that children don't suffer more than they have to from having disadvantaged parents.

You don't have to be a 'family values first' type to have some understanding of the sheer vulnerability of children and the lifelong impact of poor health in their mothers. And those who choose not to have children should be very aware if the debilitating impact of pregnancy on a woman's body.

@giraffesateleaves. I didn’t get any help - except post abortion counselling provided by Marie stopes. I was so devastated the day I found out I was pregnant when just the day before it’s what I wanted!

To be honest the whole situation has totally broken me. Its taken months of further private counselling.

Thanks for asking.xx

[quote LoveComesQuickly]**@Findearthandreef Is the ultimate goal not that lovely relationship with adult children? No, honestly not. I mean, of course it will be lovely if that happens! But if you told me that my DC will end up (for example) emigrating to Australia and I'll hardly ever see them as adults, I'd still choose to have them as children. No question.[/quote]
@LoveComesQuickly

@Findearthandreef

I agree, for me it's about nurturing/developing/influencing/unconditional love (up to a point)/legacy? It's the in between stages. It's the emotional development and connection hopefully a life long one!