To ask why having children is such an expectation?

[stereeotype]

If it wasn't an expectation of your family, friends, society...would you really have had the burning desire for children?

It's such a societal expectation that I genuinely think it is what persuades a lot of people to have them.

I'm ambivalent about children and have posted a few times recently about it but just wandered if it wasn't for external pressure would you really genuinely have seen children as a sensible decision?

It would also be great to hear from those who didn't give into pressure and are later in life and happy with the decision they made - I don't seem to hear many of those accounts either on MN or IRL

I guess for me, growing up in an abusive household, I partly wanted kids because I wanted a family in which there'd be love. I was also scared I'd end up the same as my parents. Maybe it's better that I can't have them, I don't know. But I think for some people, the sadness comes from not getting to participate in a part of life that's seen by society as so widely fundamental. And that brings me back to societal pressure - it's more than just people asking about it, it's about the way society is structured. The inherent expectation that exists in our society is that women will become mothers. It might not be blatant in the way it was decades ago, but it still exists.

Honestly, the society doesn't care if Jane Doe has kids or not. There's plenty of people having 3, 4, 5 kids, so people won't die out any time soon.
And her friends probably don't care that much either. Her parents are probably the only ones who care, because they want grandkids.
There's no "societal pressure", it's all in your head.

@WildBluebell

Honestly, the society doesn't care if Jane Doe has kids or not. There's plenty of people having 3, 4, 5 kids, so people won't die out any time soon. And her friends probably don't care that much either. Her parents are probably the only ones who care, because they want grandkids. There's no "societal pressure", it's all in your head.

I think you're defining pressure as people actively telling you to have kids or asking why you don't. It's broader than that. No, society doesn't care about Jane Doe, but it does care about there being mothers. It has no way of knowing, controlling or caring who those mothers are, but they are necessary. It can feel very much like an exclusive club when you can't join it - and that's sometimes how you realise that societal pressure does exist.

A PP called it social heft, and I think that nailed it. Society doesn't isolate each of us and scream at us to become mothers, but it does hint that there are societal benefits to doing so.

Interesting question. I guess it boils down to the fact we are mammals whose primary biological purpose is to procreate.

I never wanted children, I would get quite irritated with people who said I would change my mind/never say never and all that shit. I knew I just wasn't at all interested.

Then I hit my thirties and was so bloody annoyed to find that my hormones were telling me to "Find Male Now and Procreate." "Must Have Baby." "NOW! NOW! NOW!"

I have friends who have never been interested/never had DC and they have faced such intrusive questioning about it, it must be infuriating. It's such a personal thing, and some people are so smug about it.

My own DD is very broody at 23, and although that doesn't chime with my experience, it's her body, her life, her choice.

People should wind their necks in.

I don't have kids and I've never been broody or had any desire for them. I have a list of reasons not to have them as long as my arm.

I'm at an age where it's now or never though, I don't know if it's societal pressure which keeps me ever so slightly on the fence, or the fear of missing out.

I can see why people have kids and the joy they bring and I occasionally have a panic that I'm making the wrong choice. I think I spend far too much time reading threads like this as well, where someone will say 'I never wanted kids, but fell pregnant accidently and now they're the best thing that's ever happened to me.'

For me, my own biological clock has kicked in this year. Big time.

However, it has always really irked me how single people seem to be stigmatised by society/government so much, and the expectation to conform to family 'ideals'.

I don't see how you'd know if it was societal pressure or inate desire TBH - how would you seperate those out.

As a child I remember a birthday wish for me to grow up and have a big family - I was told that was being stupid. As a teen my school and family pushed the whole career thing at me.

When I did have kids - despite DH being over a decade older than his parents -30- and us togther 8 years it was "too" soon - every pg someone had an opnion about it . Ironically his cousin at 40 was too old .

Honestly I think it wider society feeling the need to tell women what to do with their lives - so I think the mash report nail it there.

I was super broody at 27 - but if I'd found my career more rewarding or hadn't been in a long term relationship maybe that wouldn't have happened - it's the best thing I did in my life and if resources like time and money weren't constrained we'd have had more. It was a gamble it's been hard but still best ever thing we did.

However equally I know people who do regret parenthood and many more you think why did they as they seem to dislike it so much often while encouraging others to take the plunge.

Though I do wonder why there was ever a time before now when it was so common for women not to have children - possibly after first world war when men were scarce - the brith rate around the world is dramatcially dropping and in west that's a mix of smaller families and increasingly many women having no children at all.

We are due our first any day now, we wanted to do this and zero pressure on us.

Childfree, 43 and married. When I first met my now husband in my late 30s my best friend said "So now that you're with DP, are you going to change your mind about wanting children?" WTF no. I told her I can barely look after myself and she laughed and said not to be silly.

I'm introverted, like my peace and quiet, like travel, have had some mental health issues in the past (depression/anxiety) and have recently started questioning whether I might have ADHD. I think it would be very foolish for me to have kids. I have no idea how people with kids get them organised in the morning, ready and out to school in time. I'd be a nervous wreck. I don't think I'd enjoy it at all, I'd find it incredibly stressful. You never get a break from being a parent, even if they're not with you physically I imagine there's a lot of mental anguish too, who are they with, what are they doing, especially as they get older.

I imagine that it must be nice to "have a family" after all I love my family and had a mostly great childhood. So I occasionally get pangs of what if (usually when seeing my best friend cuddle her kids or having a laugh with my nieces BUT I know that there's a hell of a lot of work goes into bringing up kids and I just don't think I'm cut out for it. And once they're here you can't exactly send them back. And people judge you - what kind of a parent are you, and I know I'd fall short massively, I just couldn't cope with that kind of responsibility.

My mother used to badger me about kids for a while, even after my brother had 3. I think she wanted the "maternal grandmother" experience, where I'd have to rely on her for stuff, asking questions and she'd be the first person I turn to whereas my SIL went to her own mother first. She's slowly come round to the fact that it's not happening.

I remember at a my brother's wedding my mother's cousin (who I'd only spent maybe 2 hours with prior) asked if I was having kids and when I said I was happy being an auntie she looked shocked and said "But I think you'd be good at it!" Lady you know nothing about me!
Thankfully once I turned 40 the questioning stopped.

@Amillionnc

There are loads of things humans do which, when you look at it from a purely transactional viewpoint (i.e. money/effort/stress in vs. benefit out), do not make logical sense. Having kids is one example but I can think of many others, eg owning a pet, doing a low wage but fulfilling job, caring for an elderly relative, supporting a friend through a relationship break up. Do you do any of those things?

@Echofallen

Childfree, 43 and married. When I first met my now husband in my late 30s my best friend said "So now that you're with DP, are you going to change your mind about wanting children?" WTF no. I told her I can barely look after myself and she laughed and said not to be silly.

I'm introverted, like my peace and quiet, like travel, have had some mental health issues in the past (depression/anxiety) and have recently started questioning whether I might have ADHD. I think it would be very foolish for me to have kids. I have no idea how people with kids get them organised in the morning, ready and out to school in time. I'd be a nervous wreck. I don't think I'd enjoy it at all, I'd find it incredibly stressful. You never get a break from being a parent, even if they're not with you physically I imagine there's a lot of mental anguish too, who are they with, what are they doing, especially as they get older.

I imagine that it must be nice to "have a family" after all I love my family and had a mostly great childhood. So I occasionally get pangs of what if (usually when seeing my best friend cuddle her kids or having a laugh with my nieces BUT I know that there's a hell of a lot of work goes into bringing up kids and I just don't think I'm cut out for it. And once they're here you can't exactly send them back. And people judge you - what kind of a parent are you, and I know I'd fall short massively, I just couldn't cope with that kind of responsibility.

My mother used to badger me about kids for a while, even after my brother had 3. I think she wanted the "maternal grandmother" experience, where I'd have to rely on her for stuff, asking questions and she'd be the first person I turn to whereas my SIL went to her own mother first. She's slowly come round to the fact that it's not happening.

I remember at a my brother's wedding my mother's cousin (who I'd only spent maybe 2 hours with prior) asked if I was having kids and when I said I was happy being an auntie she looked shocked and said "But I think you'd be good at it!" Lady you know nothing about me!
Thankfully once I turned 40 the questioning stopped.

@Echofallen

You refer to having had "some mental health issues in the past (depression/anxiety) and have recently started questioning whether I might have ADHD. I think it would be very foolish for me to have kids".

I'm sorry you went through that, and I don't mean to offend, I'm curious how do these conditions/experiences not prevent you from finding a partner and maintaining/sustaining a romantic relationship? Do you feel strong enough in it? A romantic partnership still involves 'vigilance' one needs to be engaged in order to maintain it. I appreciate it isn't always as full on as child rearing in particular in younger years.

Biological drive

I think it's a societal expectation only because it's a biological one. That biological impulse is pretty strong for some people, and not having that feeling would put you in the minority.

I don't think society should expect anyone to do anything apart from not be shit to each other and though.

@Amillionnc

DH and I have talked about what we'd have done if we couldn't have biological children - and we both said that we'd have wanted to look into adoption and fostering. So we really knew we wanted a family, it was nothing to do with creating genetic mini-me's!

We've actually talked about this with our teenagers recently and tbh, if we didn't have elderly parents with health problems, we'd probably be looking into fostering now. Both DD and DS feel that we could offer more children a stable and loving home. We may apply at some point.

46 here. Never wanted them and have never regretted it. In fact, I'm more and more convinced I made the right decision. And it's not that I don't like kids, I actually spend lots of time with them.

There's an evolutionary theory that it makes sense for a sizeable portion of people not to have a biological urge to recreate because they could help out with childcare and ensure the survival of the group. This makes a lot of sense to me - at 35 and have never felt the urge. I'm not in the 'I've always known I don't want children camp,' I just don't really feel anything about it.

The pressure from society to have children comes from the patriarchy. It is still seen as a woman's main role in life. It would be interesting to see how many people would still have children if the pressure was taken off.

@zonky I don't mean this to offend you, but this is the second time you've asked quite an intrusive question about whether or not a poster is in a romantic relationship, in circumstances where the poster has posted about personal difficulties (I was the first). Is there a reason you're asking this?

@Amillionnc

These are not twatish or goading questions at all. I promise I just don’t understand the ‘feeling’ people (usually women) talk about- for those that had children because of the biological urge can you explain it please? I genuinely don’t get it. What was the need or drive; being pregnant, child birth, staring at a mini version of yourself? What was it that made you think ok I’m happy to sacrifice sleep, time, money, freedom, body, a stress free life. Why did you believe your life would be happier or complete by making another human being?

Neither of my kids are remotely mini versions of me. They are their own people

Hi sorry I don't understand? I'm married, I wrote that at the start of the comment! I'm fine at relationships but being wholly responsible 24/7 for a tiny vulnerable creature (a baby) wouldn't work with me. I'm way too forgetful, anxious and disorganised among other things. Like someone else said I think you need to really want a kid, and even then it's going to be a huge change and quite difficult at times no matter how prepared you are.

In modern society, with access to so many different types of contraception it is clearly a CHOICE to have children or not to have children

I'm in my 50s & I never wanted children
I choose to be child free
No regrets

I've had plenty of opportunities if I wanted to have children & have had a couple of long term relationships

I am a strong, individual & my child free friends are too

We are not lesser people, because we don't have children

I don't lack anything in my life.

I don't have pets either, because pre covid, I enjoyed a lot of international travel & hobbies

When travelling, some people will say as an opening conversation " do you have children?" & I say, no, I have adventures instead.

I understand that in some cultures that it is a blessing to have children & I can appreciate that

It is entirely an individuals decision if they want children

Children are a huge responsibility, emotionally & financially

@Cakemonger

There's an evolutionary theory that it makes sense for a sizeable portion of people not to have a biological urge to recreate because they could help out with childcare and ensure the survival of the group. This makes a lot of sense to me - at 35 and have never felt the urge. I'm not in the 'I've always known I don't want children camp,' I just don't really feel anything about it.

The pressure from society to have children comes from the patriarchy. It is still seen as a woman's main role in life. It would be interesting to see how many people would still have children if the pressure was taken off.

All the pressure on my situation came from my mum. And all the aunties at functions

^ That was to @zonky BTW in case it wasn't obvious!

'I don't see how you'd know if it was societal pressure or inate desire TBH - how would you seperate those out.'

I agree. I have felt the ache, the longing, the obsession, the physical urge to be pregnant and to nurture a baby. I felt it on and off for years. I was out of my mind with envy when I saw a pregnant woman or when colleagues talked about their kids. I still feel this way to an extent

And yet I knew, in my bones, that the relentlessness of parenting was not for me. Or rather, I didn't 'know', but I felt pretty damn sure! So I sat tight, and gritted my teeth, and grieved HARD for several years. And now I'm nearly 42, and no babies, and no plans to have one either. I'm as sure as I can be that it was the right decision. Maybe being a parent would have been the best thing I ever did, but I'll never know, and I'm ok with that. No regrets, but plenty of wistfulness, and still an occasional tear

So my advice OP, if you're feeling ambivalent, hang back. Don't believe the hype, and the 'guarantees' that no one ever regrets having a child - that's bullshit. Personally I would rather take the risk of regretting my choice, rather than taking a crazy gamble and ending up feeling suffocated, exhausted and resentful. There are plenty of other things that people can be ambivalent about, without being cheerleadered into doing it anyway!

Far too many people in the world already.

I'm 47 and never wanted children. I knew that for an early age although it took me until my early 20's to be able to articulate it. I did feel pressure from in the inlaws and certain random people but was always able to ignore it because I was comfortable in my decision (and eventually my husband's decision) and quite frankly none of them was ever able to answer why they had children but expected me to be able to fully answer - to their satisfaction- why I didn't. The double standard there made it way easier for me to ignore them for the 10 years they kept asking.