To be so upset about the death of Jack Lis last night

[Aberteifi]

To feel so upset by the death of the poor 10 year old boy last night who was killed by a dog in Caerphilly.
My own son was mauled by a dog at 14 months old he has scars but he is here.
I remember the terror and the fear of it when it was happening and i can't help to feel it now knowing that is what that poor little boy went through last night.
His poor family must be going through the worst pain imaginable and i just feel so so sad for them.
I don't know why this case has really hit me but it has.

Actually more dog bites are from labradors that other breeds. Any dog can be dangerous

But we're not talking about bites are we? We are talking about horrible aggressive dogs mauling children to death. Every time this happens it's always the same type of dog and the same type of owner. I think comments like this cloud the issue, which is that whenever a child is killed by a dog it is almost always a barely legal pit bill type thing.

@tempchecked

So sad. But while I await flaming I think there are far far too many dogs around. You just never know if and when they might attack, bite, knock down, be aggressive and so on.

Of course some will say it's the owner's fault. It is not, dogs should not be allowed as pets anywhere in an urban setting, just allowed as working dogs i.e. sheepdogs, rat catchers etc. in the countryside. They know their place. A dog is inherently an attack animal with territory, and that instinct is merely trained out of them, but their instinct very often breaks through. As we have seen countless times from many different types of breeds.

Without exception they are potentially dangerous. Many are very fearful of them. I make no apologies for hoping that humans are valued more than animals in the potential dog aggression stakes.

I hope the young boy's family will find peace somehow.

Too many owners can't control their dogs and don't see why they should. I regularly get off-lead dogs jumping at me when I am walking round public open spaces. And it's always my fault. "He doesn't like your hat" was the best comment I had.

Nothing will change until dog owners are fined

@RainbowTomte

No dog is worth the risk to human life. I am sick of this idiotic mentality this ridiculous country has around dogs. They are all potentially dangerous – obviously the smaller ones won't do as much damage as the bigger breeds, but why, WHY do we deify dogs, why do people refuse to accept that dogs are predators and we are prey. I'd gladly ban the lot. This boy's life was far more precious than dog owner's desire to keep dogs.

I'd start with banning all bully breeds, including Staffordshire bull terriers (quite often pitbulls masquerading as Staffordshire bull terriers, not that the police even really care about upholding the law surrounding banned breeds).
Educate dog people. You do not need a dog.

My children are not allowed in houses with dogs. I wish more people would stand up for their children and do the same. Dog ownership is antisocial.

There is a nasty-looking bully breed two doors down from us. It's absolutely terrifying. Ugly as hell, too.

There are many many many many many many homes with dogs and children that are fine together. Dogs that never cause any problems.

You don't get to dictate whether people need a dog or not. I take it you would allow guide dogs and service dogs?

I have had dogs for over 40 years. Never wanted children and am happier with my dogs. No one is going to tell me I can't have one.

My dogs have got me through some pretty rough times - very bad depression, being suicidal and, this year, the death of both of my parents within less than 2 weeks of each other.

Just so terrible. So many lax, unsuitable dog owners out there. I wish all dogs were kept on a lead in public places.

I think there should be really strict vetting for all dog owners. The kind of vetting the dog charities do when trying to rehome dogs..
It's much too easy to just buy a dog when you have no idea what's involved in looking after it.
I'm not a dog person but I know a lot of very responsible dog owners who love their dogs and have trained them well and look after them. And I can see how much time and effort it takes.
I think a lot of dog owners have no idea what they're doing.

my sister was bitten by a dog a few months ago. cycling past a house and big pointer type dog jumped out of the garden, chased her and bit her leg. police pass it to dog warden who basically said that if it bites her again then they will do something. since she reported it, dog has been loose outside her house and even wandered into her garden. dog owner (farmer) didn't bother going to apologise/see if she was ok despite knowing what happened.

in my village, one farmer lets his two dogs roam freely. one is small so no issue (other than random poo that no one picks up) but the other is a young collie and does that weird staring behaviour which makes me very uncomfortable.

slightly out of the village are some dogs kept in a shed mostly but they escape now and again and they chase/would attack anything they can get to. cars, horses, cyclists, people. they've been reported but no one does anything. we do not feel safe walking in that area anymore

we don't have a dog and never will, I dont see the attraction and stories like this confirm our choice. both SILs believe their dogs to be their children and as a result, the dogs are poorly behaved and one can be borderline dangerous.

[quote GoodVibesHere]@rainbowtomte good for you standing up for your children. This is a real issue for me, I always feel uncomfortable informing the parents that my DC won't be allowed to their house because of the dog.

I find it hard that so many of my DC friends have them - my heart sinks when the DC tell me yet another friend got a new dog. [/quote]
Thank you.
I am absolutely rigidly strict about it. Not worth the risk. That poor child. My eldest is the same age, and big and strong for his age, but would be defenceless against a dog like that. Easier to just blanket state my children will not go to houses with any digs, because people will either lie about how risky their dog is, lie about what breed it is, or are simply ignorant regarding what a liability they've brought into their home.
The law on dangerous dogs is useless. It's not enforced, and people get around it. Makes me so angry.

@RainbowTomte yes. Idiot people.
I have two bloody giant dogs. They are well trained and I risk assess everything! In the wrong hands they could cause injury (bouncy giant pups). But I’m responsible. So my dogs pose zero threat.

@BlusteryLake

Actually more dog bites are from labradors that other breeds. Any dog can be dangerous

But we're not talking about bites are we? We are talking about horrible aggressive dogs mauling children to death. Every time this happens it's always the same type of dog and the same type of owner. I think comments like this cloud the issue, which is that whenever a child is killed by a dog it is almost always a barely legal pit bill type thing.

Well then the discussion should be about dangerous breeds not all dogs.

Just an excuse for the sad dog haters to pile in and shout for all dogs to be banned

@Garfunkle too many dogs don't have excellent recall though, in fact I'd argue that very few do. Neither of our girls do (both rescues). There is absolutely no guarantee that your dog will come back to you if they've found something a lot more interesting, regardless of how many times they have come back before

Yeah ok… just because you can’t recall your dogs doesn’t mean others can’t. I walk with several dog walking groups. The dogs who haven’t been trained to recall are kept on a lead, as are the reactive dogs. The dogs (most of them) walk off lead. Nobody has lost an off lead dog in my 30 years off group or sole dog walking. You think what suits you 🙄 Just because you can’t do it doesn’t mean most can’t.

also we have so SO many random dogs running up to us and jumping up, some are even on a lead!! owners just say oh he just wants to say hello/he's friendly! usual rubbish. I hate it, I dont like dogs and I don't want their muddy stinky feet all over me. (and no I'm not afraid of mud, I grew up with and love horses, but I dont like dogs) would be a bit different if I took out my horse and let it run all over people and said the same!

[quote Wolfiefan]@RainbowTomte yes. Idiot people.
I have two bloody giant dogs. They are well trained and I risk assess everything! In the wrong hands they could cause injury (bouncy giant pups). But I’m responsible. So my dogs pose zero threat.[/quote]
That's what many dog owners say, then their dogs have gone on to kill. Often the owners themselves.

When I was a teenager I was walking through my village. An elderly couple had a black Labrador on a lead and they were stood on the pavement talking to someone in their front garden. As I walked past, the dog jumped at me and clamped onto my arm. Luckily, I was wearing a very, very thick coat as it was winter, plus other layers, and the dog didn't break through, but did manage to make my arm blue with bruises.

More recently, (and this will sound ridiculous), a Shih Tzu type dog bit me when I was out on a run. It was off lead and chased me.

Every dog is capable of being dangerous, I think focusing on the breed just makes people complacent which then leads to owners thinking that they don't need to worry because their poodle / spaniel / Labrador won't ever hurt anyone.

Imagine his poor friend running out of the house to get help. And then they found poor jack by the door. Absolutely horrific. His poor poor family.

[quote Wolfiefan]@RainbowTomte yes. Idiot people.
I have two bloody giant dogs. They are well trained and I risk assess everything! In the wrong hands they could cause injury (bouncy giant pups). But I’m responsible. So my dogs pose zero threat.[/quote]
Your dogs do not pose zero threat, although I am sure you have mitigated effectively and are responsible. But not zero threat. Because your mitigations could fail.

As a child free dog owner I’m shocked how casual some parents are around children and dogs. I’ve lost count of the amount of times I’ve had to tell the children of strangers not to put their face next to my dog’s face or try and lift up my dog.

My dog is a gentle, child loving whippet but these parents are strangers and have no idea what my dog is like. I’m talking small toddlers with their faces touching my dog’s face.

This is so awful. The thought of it is too much. Poor boy.

@RainbowTomte

No dog is worth the risk to human life. I am sick of this idiotic mentality this ridiculous country has around dogs. They are all potentially dangerous – obviously the smaller ones won't do as much damage as the bigger breeds, but why, WHY do we deify dogs, why do people refuse to accept that dogs are predators and we are prey. I'd gladly ban the lot. This boy's life was far more precious than dog owner's desire to keep dogs.

I'd start with banning all bully breeds, including Staffordshire bull terriers (quite often pitbulls masquerading as Staffordshire bull terriers, not that the police even really care about upholding the law surrounding banned breeds).
Educate dog people. You do not need a dog.

My children are not allowed in houses with dogs. I wish more people would stand up for their children and do the same. Dog ownership is antisocial.

There is a nasty-looking bully breed two doors down from us. It's absolutely terrifying. Ugly as hell, too.

Absolutely ridiculous.

What happened to Jack is an absolute tragedy and clearly this particular dog needed to be destroyed with potential police involvement for the owners or previous owners too, but what you have suggested here is ludicrous.

Incidentally Staffies used to be one of the only two breeds of dog that the kennel club recommended for families with children, so if you’re going to ban any breed of dog I wouldn’t start with them.

I’m also not entirely sure why you felt the need to mention how ugly this particular dog you’ve seen is either. Should ugly things not be allowed out in public or are we working on some fairytale narrative that ugly things are evil?

That's what many dog owners say, then their dogs have gone on to kill. Often the owners themselves.

@wolfiefan has Irish Wolfhounds. Huge, but gentle, as a breed. The last time one of them was accused of killing a baby it was Gelert...

in my village, one farmer lets his two dogs roam freely. one is small so no issue (other than random poo that no one picks up) but the other is a young collie and does that weird staring behaviour which makes me very uncomfortable.

The farmer shouldn't be letting his dogs roam unsupervised, but FWIW the collie stare is a totally normal breed behaviour and isn't indicative of anything threatening or dangerous. It's an inherited trait that's useful for herding sheep, as they're a bit intimidated by it, but it doesn't mean the dog is going to do anything untoward.

Part of me wonders if Ireland has it right.
You have to have a dog license and if you own any of the following breeds, or crosses of, they have to be on a lead and muzzled -
American Pit Bull Terrier
English Bull Terrier
Staffordshire Bull Terrier
Dobermann Pinscher
German Shepherd (Alsatian)
Rhodesian Ridgeback
Japanese Tosa
Japanese Akita
Rottweiler
Bull Mastiff

I own a Shepherd so would be subject to these laws.
It would have probably stopped me getting that breed if I knew she had to be muzzled and on lead at all times.
Hopefully it would put off others and these breeds would become less common.
Realistically, no one needs a German Shepherd as a pet. They are working dogs who need a life more than most families can give them. And I say that as a GS owner.

Sadly people just won't be told or admit the dangers .

Just awful, his poor poor family and friend who witnessed it too.

I've been reading through the replies and have seen so many blaming inexperienced owners, certain breads etc. but how about dogs that are treated well and attack, maybe due to jealousy?

@LidlMiddleLover

People need to treat dogs with more respect and not expect saintly behavoit Don’t allow children to tease them and there would be less issues

Did you think at all about whether the comment is appropriate in this context?

It should be the law with all dogs that they have to be trained professionally. Professionals would be able to weed out the aggressive/non trainable ones in an instant.

I think it should also be the law that anyone with a dog should have to also pay for training for themselves too, far too often I’m seeing videos on social media of people pushing their dogs too far and the dogs snap and the owners find it funny. It’s sooo irresponsible.