To be so upset about the death of Jack Lis last night

[Aberteifi]

To feel so upset by the death of the poor 10 year old boy last night who was killed by a dog in Caerphilly.
My own son was mauled by a dog at 14 months old he has scars but he is here.
I remember the terror and the fear of it when it was happening and i can't help to feel it now knowing that is what that poor little boy went through last night.
His poor family must be going through the worst pain imaginable and i just feel so so sad for them.
I don't know why this case has really hit me but it has.

Any dog capable of killing a person should be banned
This would be
Dogs of a ceratin height
Dogs with powerful neck and shoulder muscles
Dogs with wide jaws
Dogs known to have been bred for certain purposes, eg attack, guard, bait

OK have your dog, but not one that kills people, from a newborn to the vulnerble, to the elderly. At least give us all a fighting chance against them in our neighbourhood.

@RainbowTomte

No dog is worth the risk to human life. I am sick of this idiotic mentality this ridiculous country has around dogs. They are all potentially dangerous – obviously the smaller ones won't do as much damage as the bigger breeds, but why, WHY do we deify dogs, why do people refuse to accept that dogs are predators and we are prey. I'd gladly ban the lot. This boy's life was far more precious than dog owner's desire to keep dogs.

I'd start with banning all bully breeds, including Staffordshire bull terriers (quite often pitbulls masquerading as Staffordshire bull terriers, not that the police even really care about upholding the law surrounding banned breeds).
Educate dog people. You do not need a dog.

My children are not allowed in houses with dogs. I wish more people would stand up for their children and do the same. Dog ownership is antisocial.

There is a nasty-looking bully breed two doors down from us. It's absolutely terrifying. Ugly as hell, too.

This is one of the most outlandish things I’ve ever read in my life. Dog ownership is antisocial, have a word with yourself.

Hear hear !

Poor little Jack, the horror he went through is unimaginable and I have no idea how his family will ever come to terms with it.

It doesn't matter how many laws are passed though, if they're not enforced. Owners of dogs which attack people or other dogs should, in my opinion, be dealt with by the law, but they're not.

Two years ago, my dog (a Weimaraner) was in my secure garden when my next door neighbour's border collie came past, off lead, and had a go at her through the gate. I didn't see what happened, but I heard it and I knew which dog it was - he'd got form for being aggressive and was known as Bastard Collie in the village - when my dog came in the house with half her ear missing. It was on the ground outside the gate, ripped clean off. Dog warden wouldn't do anything, and the policewoman who came round was horrified, but said that the official line is that dog on dog is civil, not criminal and anyway, dogs who attack other dogs don't attack people. WTAF?? The most they could do was give him a warning, but off the record, she advised me not to press them to do this as he (the neighbour) was known to them for causing trouble and did I want to be on the receiving end of that? With that attitude on the part of the police, what on earth is the answer? Until laws are enforced, we're going to see aggressive dogs continuing to attack people and other animals ad infinitum and it's not good enough.

I think when a dog is locked in an attack you should pull there back legs off the ground and not pull their jaws off the victim which would be your first instinct.

I've heard that is the best way too but not sure it would work with a dog that powerful but definitely a good tip for people to know.

Bet the previous owner couldn't believe his luck he managed to get someone to take that thing off his hands.

@Flaxmeadow

Any dog capable of killing a person should be banned This would be Dogs of a ceratin height Dogs with powerful neck and shoulder muscles Dogs with wide jaws Dogs known to have been bred for certain purposes, eg attack, guard, bait

OK have your dog, but not one that kills people, from a newborn to the vulnerble, to the elderly. At least give us all a fighting chance against them in our neighbourhood.

What height would that be? Are labradors too tall? What about Old English Sheepdogs or greyhounds? Surely it would have to be a combination of the points in your post rather than just one of them.

Greyhounds are surely too tall.
The issue is that you can’t legislate this away. We already have rules against certain breeds. That hasn’t helped.
We need to do more to ensure all dog owners are responsible.
My dogs are bloody huge. So if we have kids over on a play date we keep them separately. Not because I think they would hurt a child. But because they are big and so there is a small risk.
But it’s not like pointing a loaded gun at people when I walk them in public.

www.herefordtimes.com/news/14460002.greyhound-attacks-three-dogs-and-their-owners/

Maybe not a gun with your dog but possibly a knife?

@wolfstarling

Yes I agree. I always eye up people with powerful dogs and I can tell the majority would not be able to control their dog if they got into a fight or attacked.

Even Cesor Milan accepts that some dogs are beyond his capabilites.

A Police Dog killed a poor man when it was going through his garden looking for a criminal so even the Police can't control their own highly trained animals.

People who follow what cesar Milan says are probably contributing to a lot of the issues seen in unruly dogs to be honest. Ever seen the video where he pushes a dog so far she bites him?

It's not just banned breeds or pit bull types that are an issue, although they are often involved, a quick Google will bring up deaths caused by terrier crosses, chow chows, alaskan malamutes, German shepherds.

It's often the owners themselves who are attacked and mauled. Not just strangers.

It's bloody dangerous. Something needs to be done. I'm not sure what.

@Aberteifi

To feel so upset by the death of the poor 10 year old boy last night who was killed by a dog in Caerphilly. My own son was mauled by a dog at 14 months old he has scars but he is here. I remember the terror and the fear of it when it was happening and i can't help to feel it now knowing that is what that poor little boy went through last night. His poor family must be going through the worst pain imaginable and i just feel so so sad for them. I don't know why this case has really hit me but it has.

I too am sickened by the slaughter of that poor little Lad by a fog known to be aggressive and a problem. A quick look on you tube shows children being terrorised by these dogs- and also they attack old people. And of course, pet dogs and cats.

The dog that killed Jack has been used as a stud dog, so the potential for aggressive Behaviour is passed on.

Trainers in USA sat they are very dangerous and reactive ( Aggressive) and are not stable.

They are also idiot magnets.
Irresponsible ownership often goes hand in hand with these aggressive breeds.

An antiques dealer I knew imported an APBT ( pre legislation) and I went into his shop and had never seen one before
I was alone with the dog, and when he came in he said “
“That dog should have taken your arm off- I bought it as a guard”

Stupid man.

Edit Dog not fog.
Fat fingers

@Katie2017

I think when a dog is locked in an attack you should pull there back legs off the ground and not pull their jaws off the victim which would be your first instinct.

I've heard that is the best way too but not sure it would work with a dog that powerful but definitely a good tip for people to know.

Bet the previous owner couldn't believe his luck he managed to get someone to take that thing off his hands.

RSPCA inspector advised years ago on radio station in London that inserting an object into the dogs rectum will make it release.

But easier said than done-
In extremis it might be a lifesaver if your child or beloved pet is being mauled.

I think it is very, very rare for such attacks to come “out of the blue”
I think its most common to come out of the blue or there would have been greater care taken.
The dog was used for breeding so I presume had not been neutered. I would think that would make aggressive attacks more likely.
The photo in the Sun is of a very scary looking big dog. I think we must have stronger sentencing, for the breeder, seller and owner.

@Yusanaim

I think it is very, very rare for such attacks to come “out of the blue” I think its most common to come out of the blue or there would have been greater care taken. The dog was used for breeding so I presume had not been neutered. I would think that would make aggressive attacks more likely. The photo in the Sun is of a very scary looking big dog. I think we must have stronger sentencing, for the breeder, seller and owner.

From looking -Especially in USA- Pitbull and similar attacks can occur completely out of the blue. One woman had owned a Pitbull for 9 years and it killed her in her kitchen. A paramedic said most bites he treated were from pit bulls or Staffords- a fair few amongst “Fosters”, so these would be caring owners by the very nature. It is hardwired into them to be aggressive, just as it is hardwired into a Lurcher to chase, or a Border Collie to herd. Yes, little dogs and other types can snap- But they do a lot less damage, as they don’t lock on and shake. It’s the “ragging”” and ability to crush deep muscle and bone that makes pitbull breeds /types so dangerous in a bite situation.

Does anyone know what to do in this kind of situation?

E.g. if I witness a dog attack is there a way to stop them?

@nanbread if you realistically can pick them up by the back legs, it makes them release. With a dog like this one though no one would have stood a chance.

Does anyone know what to do in this kind of situation?

In this specific situation the dog was so out of control it was shot at the scene.

I have seen lifting a dogs back legs or inserting a finger in the dogs arse recommended for breaking up dog fights but not specifically for stopping a dog attacking a human. Both require you to bend down which would lower your head (the target of many of the bites in these attacks) making you more vulnerable and put you at significant risk of also being attacked.

I have also seen a technique where if the dog is wearing a collar you grab it, pull it up under the jaw, twist it and lift the dogs front legs off the ground; effectively cutting off the blood supply to the brain and causing the dog to pass out. Again this puts you at significant risk and requires you to be tall enough and strong enough to lift the dogs legs off the ground, not to mention you also have about 10 - 30 seconds to control a raging dog until it passes out.

I think breaking up a dog fight is very different to dealing with a dog already displaying extreme aggression to a person, any action you take will almost certainly put you at risk of serious injury. Using something to shield yourself and push the dog back so you can get the injured person away is probably the best you could do but would not be without risk.

It's a big 'if' - a large male America bulldog can weigh over 9 stone

[quote Bingbong21]@nanbread if you realistically can pick them up by the back legs, it makes them release. With a dog like this one though no one would have stood a chance.[/quote]
Does this really work though or is it an urban myth?

Would a dog in attack mode not just turn around and attack the person trying to lift their legs?

@AlternativePerspective

TBH a huge problem lies with the ability to breed dogs. It’s far too easy to log on to pets for homes and find a dog in your local area from someone who thought it would be cute to get their dog pregnant so they could make a few grand selling the puppies.

The profiting from the sale of animals needs to be banned. That way you will shut down the puppy farming industry overnight and people will need to go to more lengths to get a puppy, and that should include being vetted if only the reputable breeders are still breeding.

Added to that all litters should be registered with a vet, and the details should be registered of where those puppies go. If something then happens then it can be traced back not only to the owner of the dog but the owner of the breeder, and as such all their other dogs can be flagged and their owners be either warned or if other dogs have a history then the breeder needs to be prohibited from breeding again from that particular dog.

The import of rescue dogs needs to be banned. Too many dogs coming in with serious behavioural problems to people who aren’t really equipped to deal with them. We have enough dogs over here, we don’t need to be importing more.

Hear hear! Absolutely agree. I have had RSPCA and carefully bred dogs and both gave me a thorough grilling before allowing a dog to come to me. High fences, secure garden, and these were/are sighthounds.

So many imported dogs with aggression issues locally- specifically from Romania- the new owners excuse bad behaviour with “
He’s a rescue “ as if they expect to be given a medal and absolved of all responsibilities as to the dogs aggressive tendencies.
Dogs re- homes via proper Charities are matched really closely with suitable homes.

Online ads for dogs should be stopped completely.
They pander to the whim buyer, and poor back yard breeding practices for tax free easy money.

The dog was used for breeding so I presume had not been neutered. I would think that would make aggressive attacks more likely.

My understanding is that neutering too soon (especially when a young dog is in its secondary fear stage) or neutering an already anxious/reactive dog can mean those behaviours linger rather than resolve, so it’s not always a solution.

In the case of this dog it was very young still - 15 months wasn’t it? - so nowhere near maturity, and placed into completely unfamiliar surroundings. When you rescue a dog you’re often told about the three days/three weeks/three months rule, each being a stage of adjustment/decompression that the dog needs to go through. Minimising visitors is way up the list of things to do with a new dog because they will already be so anxious, and not forcing them into interactions they are not ready for/cannot get away from as that can lead to reactivity and aggression out of fear. Obv none of which the owners took account of it seems leading to this awful tragedy.