To be so upset about the death of Jack Lis last night

[Aberteifi]

To feel so upset by the death of the poor 10 year old boy last night who was killed by a dog in Caerphilly.
My own son was mauled by a dog at 14 months old he has scars but he is here.
I remember the terror and the fear of it when it was happening and i can't help to feel it now knowing that is what that poor little boy went through last night.
His poor family must be going through the worst pain imaginable and i just feel so so sad for them.
I don't know why this case has really hit me but it has.

@RainbowTomte

Of course it's breed. And people. If idiot people didn't get bully breeds, or other big, strong dogs, this tragedy would not keep happening. It's usually pitbull-type dogs.

This.

@BlusteryLake

Actually more dog bites are from labradors that other breeds. Any dog can be dangerous.

But we're not talking about bites are we? We are talking about horrible aggressive dogs mauling children to death. Every time this happens it's always the same type of dog and the same type of owner. I think comments like this cloud the issue, which is that whenever a child is killed by a dog it is almost always a barely legal pit bill type thing.

And this. Always the same type of dogs, and always the same type of people.

@NeverBeenNormal

Too many owners can't control their dogs and don't see why they should. I regularly get off-lead dogs jumping at me when I am walking round public open spaces. And it's always my fault. "He doesn't like your hat" was the best comment I had.

Nothing will change until dog owners are fined.

100% this too. Several months back, I got a massively aggressive big thug of a dog, taking a run at me in a field, snarling and barking. I managed to get in my car before he got to me. When the owner (who had stupidly let the dog off its lead) got to me, I said 'he needs to be on a lead!' All the stupid fat-headed pleb said was' you look like my wife's sister, he hates her.' No apology or anything. Cunt.

RIP. Prayers xx

I was just thinking they need to bring in licensing for pitbull type dogs. But you just know that the dickheads that have these types of dogs will just move onto something else. Like Japanese akitas or similar.

Something else notably aggressive.

@OrangeJuiceAndNoodles

I was just thinking they need to bring in licensing for pitbull type dogs. But you just know that the dickheads that have these types of dogs will just move onto something else. Like Japanese akitas or similar.

Something else notably aggressive.

Can’t have a license because pitbull types are legally banned in the U.K! But they cannot police the ban so they continue to be bred and sold.

@OrangeJuiceAndNoodles

I was just thinking they need to bring in licensing for pitbull type dogs. But you just know that the dickheads that have these types of dogs will just move onto something else. Like Japanese akitas or similar.

Something else notably aggressive.

The Dangerous Dogs Act 1992 banned pitbull types (and 3 other breeds).

It was a poorly drafted piece of legislation, but what do you think a licencing scheme would achieve that a ban has not?

The problem is tarring all dog owners because of these incidents.

Let’s be honest, they did not get that dog to be a lovely family pet, going for nice walks in the park, did they?

They got it because it looked like it could hurt someone. Which it did.

It’s just devastating that it is not the owners that have suffered, but an innocent family.

Also, to highlight how inadequate the current dangerous dog/banned breed laws are in the U.K.

These dogs both live in the U.K., both were assessed on physical conformation and one has been found to be an illegal pitbull type (therefore a danger) and the other not (therefore not dangerous)

No temperament or behaviour tests were carried out, just physical measurements.

@RunningFromInsanity

Also, to highlight how inadequate the current dangerous dog/banned breed laws are in the U.K.

These dogs both live in the U.K., both were assessed on physical conformation and one has been found to be an illegal pitbull type (therefore a danger) and the other not (therefore not dangerous)

No temperament or behaviour tests were carried out, just physical measurements.

This type of dog is NEVER 'not dangerous.'

NEVER.

@LittleDandelionClock

Not according to the U.K. law.
That’s why the DDA law is currently not fit for purpose.

I love dogs but I think there needs to me more pressure on owners to be responsible.

I've said it on these threads before, but DS has had dogs go for him before, a really big one when he was still toddling ran him down.

I've also been chased out running, and received a nip on the leg too. Owners in all cases couldn't have given less of a shit.

It's disturbing to me that dogs go missing in my
local area all the time. "Just seen a dog running down xx street, I hope he's ok". To be honest I don't care if the dog is ok, I'm pissed off that they're running around on their own potentially causing accidents or worse.

An innocent child had died in the most horrific circumstances it’s so appalling. Those that had the dog should imprisoned it’s a deadly weapon ...and those toes of beers have no place in society pit bulls, xl bullies etc are terrifying and used to intimidate people by the owners. No normal family would have that animal in their home ...if they turn it’s catastrophic!! Makes me so angry and upset for the boy that died and his family ...I hope the owners receive a very severe punishment!!

Types of breeds

Full disclosure - we have a rescue staffy cross (though crossed with something dopey by the look of her, not with another bull breed). We have had her since the spring with no concerns bar her obsession with wanting to chase cats and squirrels and the fact she plays with other dogs like a bulldozer - so she is never, ever off lead in public unless it’s a secure field with no other people or dogs around. She is prevented from chasing cats in the garden whenever possible (next door’s cat likes to sit at a height to wind her up). She is put on a lead when we have visitors until she calms down and can sit nicely to be given attention. She sleeps variously in our bed or our eldest’s bed. She is only allowed to greet other dogs on lead for a few seconds so neither can get too worked up. She walks beautifully alongside other dogs as required. She is a delight.

But still this incident has made me reflect about where we may have become complacent. We constantly reinforce with the DC about no hugging, no getting in her face, letting her come to them for a fuss, letting her have her own space. But I’ve also told them about what happened to this poor boy to reinforce that we can never be too careful and must always watch her body language closely. I will definitely be supervising more closely and rethinking eldest being on their own in the house with the dog, which has been rare and brief to date.

I thought the Wikipedia stats posted earlier were interesting and three things jumped out at me alongside the breed of dogs involved:

1. dog and child unsupervised
2. owner collapsing/falling/having a seizure immediately before the attack
3. a bite history or history of aggression

I think it is very, very rare for such attacks to come “out of the blue” but without some kind of training/licence scheme there is no requirement for people to learn these warning signs before getting a dog, or to disclose any history of aggression to a new owner. So many dogs are in rescues with uncertain histories (ours was fostered so we had a sense of what we were getting into) and rescues take necessary precautions when rehoming (though some definitely less cautious than others) but they’re being sold online with no such checks. Is it feasible to ban the online sale of dogs? I thought some legislation had been passed to do this but perhaps I’d misunderstood its reach.

It's emerged the dog was bought by those owners 2 weeks ago after the previous ones sold it out of fears it would hurt another dog. I hope the person who brought that dog into a home with a resident child faces actions for child endangerment.

What an awful incident for the boy.

My local RSPCA has space for 20 dogs....visited before lockdown and all 20 pens taken up with part pitbull/staffy/bully mix dogs...all with that typical look and stance etc. Not surprisingly, Staff said they have great difficulty rehoming most of them. All brought in from various backgrounds, but the staff told me the dog fighting business is absolutely massive, out of control and very difficult; virtually impossible to under cover. Although checks are done, they think many will pass into the horrific underworld of dog fighting.

....so now have a soft as shite Cavapoo

News update

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-59237518

A 28 year old woman has been arrested and bailed on suspicion of being in charge of a dog dangerously out of control causing injury resulting in death, before being released on bail.

Two men were also interviewed voluntarily.

Breed of dog not yet established

Fel free to be the mutt-apologist Garfunkle You are fooling no-none. Too many people have had too many bad experiences with out-of-control dogs, (as this thread proves,) for your 'no reason why dogs can't be off a lead' bollocks to hold any water.
I find it quite disturbing that you - and a few other mutt-apologists on here, seem to be way more upset at their precious mutts being slated, than they are of the death of that poor boy. Speaks volumes about tbh

I have no idea what you are wittering on about? I have stated throughout this thread that untrained dogs are a PITA. I don’t like dogs jumping all over me. My dogs don’t like dogs jumping over them either. I agree that untrained dogs should be kept on lead. I do not agree that ALL dogs should be kept on lead at all times.

I would be very happy if there was a law against dogs and puppies being sold online. People with no idea about training dogs buy on a whim.
If online sites like gumtree were not allowed to advertise dogs for sale it should reduce the growing number of untrained, reactive dogs.

We have a dog anf I'm a huge dog-lover, but I agree that there literally id no reason whatsoever to have a large strong bull-type breed. There simply isn't. There are millions of dogs out there. Why would anyone actively choose one of these horrible breeds?

A relative of mine was mauled by his own English bull terrier. He was very badly injured. If he had done it to one of his children, that child would dead.

The dog was bought because the wife always loved them. They still have one and I refuse to visit.

I adore dogs. I have 2 rescues. Both small (one a tiny spaniel, probably my crossed with something) and an another than is a some sort of poodle Cross. She actually looked like a small sheep. Both have excellent recall, but Both only walked off lead if we are somewhere we can see all directions clearly and go back on the lead at any point we see anyone. Both are very timid so don't approach people. But we still take precautions. It's just how it is. If we are in a field and I don't have a clear view they gone on the lead. That's it.

That said, the vast majority of these attacks happen on private property. Not when out for a walk. And usually the dog has a history. One of the children that died from that wiki link, was 3 streets away. People would not walk down by the garden because of the dog. Everyone knew it was dangerous and even the man, in the family couldn't control it when it dragged him along. And yet they left a young chap in charge of a baby, with the dog in the garden the dog got in. The children shouldn't have been responsible for the baby, never mind baby and dog.

Very few of these attacks come out of the blue. The owners have them to intimate and no one does anything about an aggressive dog until it really injures or kills someone. That needs to change.

I would also love to see private dog rehoming stop. People who claim the 'rescued a dog' but actually bought it off FB, really annoy me. They have no clue to the history, just what the current owners says and fall for the 'oh change in work pattern means we need to rehome....but he is the perfect dog'. Its irresponsible on all parts.

I would bet money, this dog was bought in this way. Even if the new owner didn't know it had a history, the neighbours have reported it was known to be aggressive so obviously made an impression and the owner left her own son with it. What the fuck? A massive agressive dog, just been rehomed and you leave it in with at least one child? It should have been I the home at all.

And quite honestly, I do agree there's a certain type of person that's wants an aggressive dog or an aggressive intimidating looking dog. Loads of these cases, have huge back grounds where you can see the owner has encouraged this behaviour. Like the man who like to threaten women with his dog. His dog then killed his pregnant partner.

Very few of these attacks come out of the blue

I think this is the crux of it.
After a killing there are always stories about how the dog was known to be aggressive.
Until the law gives more powers to deal with aggressive dogs, this will keep happening.

It was a poorly drafted piece of legislation, but what do you think a licencing scheme would achieve that a ban has not?

I had no idea they were actually banned. I see loads of them about.

I'm in my 30s and I've never known anybody be arrested for their dog breed or had their dog removed from them.

The law needs to be firmed up and enforced, pronto.

It makes me wonder... If you have an illegal dog, which so many clearly do... And you take them to the vets, what happens?

Either they're not being taken to the vets, or vets turn a blind eye to the illegality.

Beggars belief.

@OrangeJuiceAndNoodles

It makes me wonder... If you have an illegal dog, which so many clearly do... And you take them to the vets, what happens?

Either they're not being taken to the vets, or vets turn a blind eye to the illegality.

Beggars belief.

You have to be qualified to identify a pitbull. Most of the banned breeds look very similar to non ban breeds.

Only 3 of these dogs are banned breeds (the Pitbull, Dogo Argentino and the Fila Braziliero)

This is why I don’t allow playdates with families with dogs. I got bitten by a golden retriever when I was younger a so called ‘gentle’ breed & I won’t put ds in the same position.