To be so upset about the death of Jack Lis last night

[Aberteifi]

To feel so upset by the death of the poor 10 year old boy last night who was killed by a dog in Caerphilly.
My own son was mauled by a dog at 14 months old he has scars but he is here.
I remember the terror and the fear of it when it was happening and i can't help to feel it now knowing that is what that poor little boy went through last night.
His poor family must be going through the worst pain imaginable and i just feel so so sad for them.
I don't know why this case has really hit me but it has.

[quote trumpisagit]@wolfstarling
I would definitely sign that petition.
I love (normal) dogs but large dogs are completely unnecessary in residential homes.
They are a danger to children, cats, and (judging by that Wikipedia article) epileptics.
I think the Ireland system sounds good, but what are their stats for people killed by dogs? [/quote]
You'd expect there to be far fewer deaths in Ireland as they have a much smaller population - 5 million, compared to 67 million for the UK. So as a baseline you'd only expect them to have a raw number of deaths that is 92.5% lower than ours.

Still, a quick Google finds a couple of recent deaths - Mia O'Connell, 3 months, killed by a husky X terrier earlier this year and Glen Murphy, 7, killed by rottweilers last yyear

Of course we are getting into small sample sizes and incomplete data at this point, where a single incident can start to skew the data, but I doubt their deaths per capita are significantly lower than ours.

One big reason for this is - even if you believe breed specific legislation is effective - Ireland's laws only cover what you can do with those dogs in public places (muzzled, lead max 2m long, walked by someone aged over 16) while the vast majority of serious attacks happen in the family home.

I think some states in the US have outright bans on certain breeds or restrictions applied. @trumpisagit

www.petplace.com/article/dogs/pet-care/banned-breeds-a-state-by-state-guide/

while the vast majority of serious attacks happen in the family home.

I agree which is why banning certain dogs outright if the owners have contact with children is important. Also children are at risk from visiting grandparents so certain dogs should have a secure kennel that if a child visits they must put them in etc.

Also owning more than 2 dogs from specific lists should be banned. A large proportion of attacks involve multiple dogs as they become a pack and fights are inevitable.

I want to scream when I think about what Jack suffered before he died. Even if it was just a few minutes which must have felt like a lifetime. The utter terror and agony of every bite over and over. An utter horrific death for a little boy.

I have an 11 year old DS and I think I would go insane and totally lose the plot if I was Jack’s mother. I wouldn’t be able to be responsible for my actions to the parents of his poor friend who they’d also put at risk of death. I sincerely hope any DC in the house are removed permanently from them.

Fucking dogs and fucking people who compare them to children, call them fur babies, and think anyone else gives a fuck if they’re ‘just being friendly’.

All of the known dangerous breeds should be rounded up and euthanised as an urgency. Their lives are not more important than stopping stupid arsehole owners putting defenceless DCs lives at risk.

I have been closely following dog attacks for at least 20 years and for some reason the UK are slow to impose any legislation with regards to dog ownership. I often wonder if it is because some people would resort to illegal gun ownership instead as a means of protection if these dogs had bans and restrictions imposed upon them.

I don’t think the laws in Ireland re muzzling etc are particularly well enforced

The dog weighed 52kg, fucking hell.

It seems senseless to make that they need to check if this is a ‘banned breed’.

That thing is not a dog. It’s a monster.

@Lucidas

It seems senseless to make that they need to check if this is a ‘banned breed’.

If someone had posted on the Doghouse board with this photo, and said this dog was a beloved family member that they have had to PTS due to cancer or whatever... I bet you would be beside yourself sending sad message to them.

A relative of mine was mauled by his own English bull terrier. He was very badly injured. If he had done it to one of his children, that child would dead

The dog was bought because the wife always loved them. They still have one and I refuse to visit

These dogs are horrible, ugly, evil looking things. I cannot understand why anyone would want one.

It makes me wonder... If you have an illegal dog, which so many clearly do... And you take them to the vets, what happens?

Either they're not being taken to the vets, or vets turn a blind eye to the illegality.

Some vets like these dogs and disagree with the laws on them, as do many dog wardens. Also a condemned dog can have legal representation in court to prevent being put down. This is the INSANE situation we are in now and its a growing trend. Run by a campaigning powerful dog lobby, that says dogs can do no wrong and must never ever be destroyed. There are dog 'experts' who specialise in this type of court appeal. Even in some cases, especially in the USA, where dogs that have seriously injured people have been 'saved'

It is a regular occurance to see dangerous dogs everywhere now, in streets, parks, outside school gates, off leash or straining at the leash and there seems to be nothing any of us can do about it. A friend of mine rang the council to complain about repeated dogs off lead in childrens play areas. They actually laughed at her (seriously), you could hear them in the office, and the signs banning dogs are no longer by the play area gates. Dogs are in there all the time now

Agree that any dog if badly treated can be severely aggressive, any dog that's well treated can still snap, breeds bred for an aggressive fighting temperament are going to be worse, however lovely they are within their 'pack'.

Horrid that it was at a friend's house. Reinforces my paranoia about letting dc go to anyone's house if I haven't been there first and seen who/what is living there.

@Lucidas

It seems senseless to make that they need to check if this is a ‘banned breed’.

Jesus, what a horrible dog. Poor Jack, he must have been absolutely terrified

[quote trumpisagit]@wolfstarling
I would definitely sign that petition.
I love (normal) dogs but large dogs are completely unnecessary in residential homes.
They are a danger to children, cats, and (judging by that Wikipedia article) epileptics.
I think the Ireland system sounds good, but what are their stats for people killed by dogs? [/quote]
If they are properly trained large dogs are fine. We had an Old English Sheepdog when I was little, he was huge but the softest dog you could meet. Mum also had a Rottweiler x Labrador, again softer than many small dogs.

I think it is a fallacy that if a dog is well looked after and trained there will be no problems. Some dogs are genetically off. They can turn in a second however well looked afer they are.

To have a safe society a proportion of dogs need to be PTS regardless of how they are raised. I think some people really struggle to understand that.

My cousin often posts pics on Facebook of small babies asleep with big dogs curled round them, and comments like "Adorable " and "Everyone thinks these dogs are tough, but they're softies really!" Don't think she'll be posting one this week.

To have a safe society a proportion of dogs need to be PTS regardless of how they are raised. I think some people really struggle to understand that.

How do you propose to do that though? Knock on doors and demand to see if a dog lives there and if it's the 'wrong' breed PTS regardless of how well trained the animal is? What breeds are you suggesting be PTS?

That pic masked me feel ill, it isn’t a pet it’s a monster an 8 stone pure muscle monster ...they have huge mouths and bite. It doesn’t bear thinking about what happened to Jack the sheer terror. It’s beyond horrific. As I said before if I was his parent I would not be responsible for what I’d do to the owners that had this monster in their home...they should no longer have children under their care ...this was avoidable...

What happened to that poor boy is horrific. Absolutely horrific. My heart goes out to the family. I’ve read the whole thread and the data is scary for those breeds.

Thank you to the poster who posted videos of dog aggressive and happy behaviour. That was very enlightening.

One question. What’s a nanny dog? I’ve never heard that term before.

How do you propose to do that though? Knock on doors and demand to see if a dog lives there and if it's the 'wrong' breed PTS regardless of how well trained the animal is? What breeds are you suggesting be PTS?

I think you have misunderstood what I was saying. The old trope of how a dog is raised causes these issues with dogs is not always true.

Of course we shouldn't put to sleep healthy dogs! I love dogs! Put people need to have dogs with reported behavioural issue PTS if they are powerful breeds or at least closely monitored by safe experienced owners with no contact with children. If you look at death by dogs these dogs can kill adults easily so a child stands no chance.

One question. What’s a nanny dog? I’ve never heard that term before.

Staffordshire bull terriers have often been referred to as nanny dogs due to their good temperament with children.

"What’s a nanny dog?"

It's a term for a dog which (assuming properly brought up) has a soft temperament and is suitable to be around DC, even if powerfully built. Several bull breeds attract thus term.

It's not usually used for dogs which don't look powerful , but can mean any dog whose breed traits mean they are one of the more suitable ones for families with DC.

It doesn't mean you don't have to socialise and train them properly, or that you can opt out of diligent, age-appropriate supervision when DC and dog are within reach of each other

@wolfstarling

How do you propose to do that though? Knock on doors and demand to see if a dog lives there and if it's the 'wrong' breed PTS regardless of how well trained the animal is? What breeds are you suggesting be PTS?

I think you have misunderstood what I was saying. The old trope of how a dog is raised causes these issues with dogs is not always true.

Of course we shouldn't put to sleep healthy dogs! I love dogs! Put people need to have dogs with reported behavioural issue PTS if they are powerful breeds or at least closely monitored by safe experienced owners with no contact with children. If you look at death by dogs these dogs can kill adults easily so a child stands no chance.

Apologies Wolfstarling, I misunderstood. In that case I agree with you completely!

It's a horrific story...that poor child.

I'm in Ireland and have a rescue German Shepherd. She's banned from all the dog runs in public parks - there's a big sign up with banned breeds. She's supposed to be muzzled and on a lead when out in public. I will admit that I don't use the muzzle all the time, but I never let her off lead. When in the park she has a long lead and no muzzle, but if we're shopping, at a market etc. she's muzzled. We do have a licence too.
I also never let any children near her. I've had kids run up towards us and just said "Stop...don't come any closer to her. She's very afraid of people" If I say she might bark or bite....people always say " ah no she's lovely" and keep approaching. It's mad. But when I say she's scared, they say "Aw poor girl" and stay back.