To be really sick of people blaming Labour for the Tories

[daimbarsatemydogsbone]

WTAF? It's a Tory government doing this stuff, yet rather than try voting for someone else, people are tripping over themselves to bleat on about weak leader, lack of opposition etc
If a "strong leader" is some twat like Boris then I won't be able to vote Labour. For now and in the last few elections, I haven't needed some Boris-alike twat at the helm to convince me to Labour, nor should anyone else.

Fair enough if you are an actual Tory and would vote for a dead horse with a blue rosette but anyone who is a floating voter - how much more shit do the Tories need to be for you to stop blaming Labour for them?

@TooBigForMyBoots

YANBU, I'm tired of hearing "but Labour...". If you voted for Boris Johnson's Conservative party, own it.🙄

This.

I think that it is a simplistic view though that people voted for the Tories to get Brexit done or because of Jeremy Corbyn. In many of those old red wall areas there has been a slow turn towards the Tories as the miners strike and thatcher become more distant.
In other parts of the country, like here in the SW, the Tories have always had the working class vote.

Labour need to stop naval gazing, cut the ideological arguments and work out how the fuck they are going to get back in power because that must be their priority now.

Give me (white middle class female If that matters) some reasons why I should have voted Labour, aside from 'because the Tories are this that and the other' please OP?

@Iggly

I agree.

The Tories are being actively shit and with a large majority, a decent opposition will make no fucking difference.

Why? Because we don’t have an election coming up! Pointless saying what about Labour etc etc

They don't need to call an election for another 3 years and have a massive majority. Labour aren't relevant, same as the Tories through the Blair years.

@FourTeaFallOut

That is down to people who voted Conservative. No one else.

People who voted Labour all their lives voted Conservative in the last election. Entire areas where previously you couldn't say Tory out loud without somone spitting on the ground returned a Conservative mp for the first time in the last election.

The sheer arrogance to think Labour didn't do anything wrong and it was, in fact, the electorate who was wrong will be exactly the reason why Labour won't win the next election either, unless they sort themselves out.

Because many of them wanted Brexit above all else.

I think it’s historic the Tories get the country in a mess which takes labour years to sort out so people then vote for the Tories. What is needed is a completely new party.

YANBU and I haven’t read the thread but I bet it’s a bunch of ‘because trans…because that nasty Raynor woman triggered me with the word scum…’.

Boris could shoot someone dead on live tv and there will still be people saying it’s Starmers fault for not storming the stage quickly enough to grab the gun plus he’s not charismatic.

Boris could remove minimum wage and reinstate poor houses and some people would say ‘but a random Labour activist shouted the word TERF on Twitter so I have no choice but to vote Tory again. Even if it means I have to go to the food bank and can’t afford to heat my home anymore’.

I don’t know why some Tory voters go through this cringe charade. If you prefer Tory polices then just say you do. That’s fine. Don’t come up with a million excuses and try and blame others for ‘forcing’ you to vote in the way you do.

I think it’s historic the Tories get the country in a mess which takes labour years to sort out so people then vote for the Tories. What is needed is a completely new party.

People forget just how run down public services were by the 90s. Thatcher sold the family silver in the 80s and refused to put the money back into public services.

The austerity of the 2010's is already having the same effect.

Corbyn is the reason we have a conservative government

Unless Labour, the Liberal Democrats or Greens drop all forms of identity politics and have a massive purge of all the woke bros and handmaidens I will be voting Tory for the 1st time in my life at the next election

Me too. I've never voted Conservative before and never thought I would but every other party has rejected my vote because I believe in biology. The Lib Dems, the party I have typically voted for explicitly said they didn't want votes from people who wouldn't chant the mantra TWAW, some members of the Labour party signed a declaration demanding anyone who wouldn't get on board with TWAW be expelled from the party, I'm not welcome in the Greens either. Am I supposed to sacrifice my self respect at the alter of Tory hatred? Jog on.The centre and centre left parties have been told many times how much of a problem this is but they refuse to listen.

I've spoilt my ballot at the last two elections but I'm not going to continue to do that, if I have to vote tory to underline my rejection of Labour then that's what I'm prepared to do. I'm also repelled by the arrogance and sneering contempt of some Labour supporters. Although I'm not a Tory voter (yet) and I think our current government are a disgrace I have never spoken about other people and their voting choices in such a disrespectful way.

Any party left leaning party that explicitly supports women's rights will get my vote before the Conservatives at the next election but I'm not holding out much hope.

Corbyn's gone and the tide's about to turn. YANBU but I think people are starting to see through Mr Johnson

I think that it is a simplistic view though that people voted for the Tories to get Brexit done or because of Jeremy Corbyn. In many of those old red wall areas there has been a slow turn towards the Tories as the miners strike and thatcher become more distant.

The reality is the so-called red wall towns have become older (as the younger people move away to Uni and often don't come back) and every poll etc suggests that the older you are the more likely you are to vote Tory and the younger you are the more likely you are to vote Labour. Plus older people are more likely to be home owners.

Added to the fact the whole Brexit thing was played out largely along age lines as well. The older you are the more likely you were to vote Brexit and the younger you are the more likely you were to vote Remain. The red wall areas still stuck with Labour in 2017 (despite Brexit) but the deemed betrayal over not honouring the result (and the Tories pledge to 'Get Brexit done' was the final nail in the coffin for Labour with many of its heartlands.

@isadoradancing123

Corbyn is the reason we have a conservative government

Yep

@Poetrypatty

Corbyn's gone and the tide's about to turn. YANBU but I think people are starting to see through Mr Johnson

Corbyn's Labour forced a hung parliament in 2017 (the Tories had a majority in 2015).

The 2017 and 2019 elections were not normal ones because of the whole Brexit fiasco.

Corbyn is the reason we have a conservative government

Along with those within Labour who demanded the suicide pact of a second referendum in 2019 as an election pledge.

Corbyn is a convenient scapegoat but any Labour leader would have got trounced with their Brexit position. Tories cleverly just said 'we'll get it done'. Even if it was bullshit and built on sand, it won them the election. Corbyn was too weak to stand up to the fools who led Labour to that position.

I really enjoyed the BBC Blair Brown documentary recently because it reminded me of the sense of possibility and optimism that infected the nation (particularly young voters at the time, like me). If Labour was able to reinvent itself again, the floating voters would come back. Interestingly, the ability of the Tory party to reinvent itself, tweak policy, etc, has been a driver of its success with voters. Labour has not hit the right formula yet.

(And to PPs, please don’t dismiss the negative impact of Keir Starmer publicly giving support to self ID as “transphobia” - recent polls in Scotland showed that the vast majority of the public are not in favour. Since this is an increasingly publicly debated issue, it has the ability to detract from the other Labour policies)

I'm a floating voter with no loyalty to any party but I won't vote Labour as long as momentum have anything to do with the party because I don't like their views, especially on antisemitism.

As someone else has said the options are pretty grim and we desperately need a new option but until we do I guess I'm stuck between Conservative and Plaid.

I don't blame Labour for anything apart from them making it easy for the tories to get back in because they are a shambles. I've voted Labour in the past but wouldn't even entertain the idea now.

The SNP has also helped the torys remain in power, due to seats that used to go to labour going to SNP.

@Againstmachine

The SNP has also helped the torys remain in power, due to seats that used to go to labour going to SNP.

Agree with this. The SNP has been a gift to the Tories.

I think the idea of Labour being worse than the Tories is wrong because it underestimates just how bad the Tories are and have been. Remember Cameron in 2015: vote for stability with me rather than chaos with Ed Miliband. Would we really be worse off as a country if Ed won that election? Even if he wouldn't have made a good PM. The Tories have wrecked the country.

It's like the choice the Americans had. Biden and the Dems (awful) or Trump and the Republicans (truly awful).

Many, many people loathed Jeremy Corbin and his vile anti Semitic, terrorist supporting views

Except he didn’t have those views that was just what the Tories wanted you to believe.

@Againstmachine

The SNP has also helped the torys remain in power, due to seats that used to go to labour going to SNP.

The worst was 2015. The Tories used the SNP as an attack line to English voters that if you vote for Labour you'll get a 'coalition of chaos with the SNP'. And a public that had just put up with 5 years of a 'coalition of chaos' didn't want to vote one which they were told would be worse.

That was the first election Labour were decimated in Scotland as well and it saw the Tories home for their first majority since 1992.

@Nappyvalley15

But most people slagging off the Tories probably didn't vote for them. They probably abstained or voted for parties other than Labour. Instead of blaming the electorate for making the wrong choice, Labour need to make themselves the obvious choice for more people. But they are too stubborn and too ideological to do so.

This.

I am a Labour party member. I would not have voted for them under Corbyn. I would not vote for them in their current state.

Does not mean I support or voted for the Tories.

What it means is labour are still not working. It's a huge source of frustration and anger. Seriously. Labour should be way ahead in the polls. They aren't. Don't blame the electorate for that, blame them.

Agree with this. The SNP has been a gift to the Tories.

Yep it's a guarantee that labour won't get those votes so they don't really have to campaign..

I blame those who voted for them.

Except he didn’t have those views that was just what the Tories wanted you to believe.

Nope I don't believe he had these views however many members of his party did, and he did nothing that's why be isn't fit to be leader.

And dont get me started on momentum.