To be really sick of people blaming Labour for the Tories

[daimbarsatemydogsbone]

WTAF? It's a Tory government doing this stuff, yet rather than try voting for someone else, people are tripping over themselves to bleat on about weak leader, lack of opposition etc
If a "strong leader" is some twat like Boris then I won't be able to vote Labour. For now and in the last few elections, I haven't needed some Boris-alike twat at the helm to convince me to Labour, nor should anyone else.

Fair enough if you are an actual Tory and would vote for a dead horse with a blue rosette but anyone who is a floating voter - how much more shit do the Tories need to be for you to stop blaming Labour for them?

Do people seriously want Boris re-elected, because that’s what will happen if people don’t vote Labour.

You can't "blame" Labour for what the Conservative government is doing, but it must surely be down to them that they can't persuade enough people to vote for them no matter how bad the government is?

I have to say, that I think a lot of it is about how the media report things and what they focus on. It has such a huge impact. They go for sensationalism and sound bites. They don’t report on things in any depth. Borris does great three word slogans. He is interesting because he is so awful and blatant and has an unusual personality. Corbyn had some great policies that would have really helped address social injustice and inequality but he was crap at getting things across in an interesting and succinct way. He could see the world for what it is, nuanced, complex - but that doesn’t translate into good media pieces so he was misquoted. Kier is full of integrity and is intelligent and a steady and safe pair of hands. But that doesn’t make good headlines either.

You have to actively search to find Labour’s position on things. They aren’t great at getting media on board. But then the main sources of news are mostly Tory owned and led. Often by the very rich for whom policies to address inequality would effect financially. Even the Independent is now owned by the Daily fail.

I don’t know what the answer is other than actively researching our options ourselves by going to the source, rather than relying on the media.

Counsellor
Do Labour want Boris Johnson re-elected? Because that is what will happen if they don't give more of us an opposition we would want to vote for.

@CounsellorTroi

Do people seriously want Boris re-elected, because that’s what will happen if people don’t vote Labour.

The Tories will get rid of Boris without a second thought when they're done with him like they did with TM. Don't vote for a party based solely on the leader.

It's really annoyed me. I have 2 floating voter family members who never voted Tory until the last election and bleat "But Corbyn". "Not voting for Corbyn" and "voting for Boris Johnson" did not have to be the same thing! I voted for neither!

I agree with you OP.

Another thing that baffles me is not 1 person ever admits to voting Tory, they say oh I like to keep it private or something like that 😂 Why are they so ashamed to say they vote for the Tories but still do it?

Oh and also now the Tories are bringing in as many changes they can to ensure they retain power (and wealth) - e.g. needing ID to vote.

We need proportional representation to make it a more democratic process.

We need proportional representation to make it a more democratic process

And yet only a decade ago 60% of people couldn't even be arsed to voted in a referendum on the matter and of those who did, the majority wanted to keep things as they were.

@FourTeaFallOut

That is down to people who voted Conservative. No one else.

People who voted Labour all their lives voted Conservative in the last election. Entire areas where previously you couldn't say Tory out loud without somone spitting on the ground returned a Conservative mp for the first time in the last election.

The sheer arrogance to think Labour didn't do anything wrong and it was, in fact, the electorate who was wrong will be exactly the reason why Labour won't win the next election either, unless they sort themselves out.

I'm not saying that they were wrong. They knew he was an incompetent, corrupt, lying arsehole when they voted for him. But, they didn't have to vote for him. They could have voted someone else, they could have spoiled their ballot, they could just have stayed inside and not voted at all.

But Labour... is no excuse. Tory voters voted for a tory parliament. That's on them, no one else.

Thanks for this post. Agree 100% and share your utter frustration.

I voted Labour since 1992. Lifelong left winger - I went on my first march in my mother's arms. I will not vote for them again until they

• stop unconditional 'no debate' support for self-ID
• take seriously the EHRC report into antisemitism
• take a good look at the misogyny and safeguarding red flags in their party and councils - no lessons learned from Rotherham
• divorce Momentum - the quality of candidates from Webbe to O'Mara - is laughable poor and a liability. These people aren't just incompetent -they are nasty and criminal. At least there are some decent tory backbenchers - can't really say the same of Labour with a couple of exceptions.

The current Labour party mainly seems to exist for the entertainment of Labour Party members. Telling the electorate they are bad and wrong and sneering at the people they expect to vote for them seems to be a hobby for most LP 'activists' and they mainly use the party as a dating pool or a virtue badge.

Johnson and the Tories are an absolute fucking disaster and as a nation I am embarrassed for our government. But I ask myself - would a Corbyn government have been any better? Would it have delivered a better Brexit or improved Covid outcomes? Unlikely.

But Labour... is no excuse. Tory voters voted for a tory parliament. That's on them, no one else.

Yes, I get it - you are pissed off. All these previously good people who use to vote Labour became bad people over four years and voted Tory...And that's not on Labour? Right.

Ohhh i know it is simply ridiculous.

The blame lies solely on the door of those who voted for the tories.

You are responsible for your decisions, noone else, if you didn't think the tories were able to run this country on the right way, you shouldn't have voted for them.
So yes its on you and noone else.

I agree OP

@Suspiciousmind20

I have to say, that I think a lot of it is about how the media report things and what they focus on. It has such a huge impact. They go for sensationalism and sound bites. They don’t report on things in any depth. Borris does great three word slogans. He is interesting because he is so awful and blatant and has an unusual personality. Corbyn had some great policies that would have really helped address social injustice and inequality but he was crap at getting things across in an interesting and succinct way. He could see the world for what it is, nuanced, complex - but that doesn’t translate into good media pieces so he was misquoted. Kier is full of integrity and is intelligent and a steady and safe pair of hands. But that doesn’t make good headlines either.

You have to actively search to find Labour’s position on things. They aren’t great at getting media on board. But then the main sources of news are mostly Tory owned and led. Often by the very rich for whom policies to address inequality would effect financially. Even the Independent is now owned by the Daily fail.

I don’t know what the answer is other than actively researching our options ourselves by going to the source, rather than relying on the media.

This i believe is so right, people sadly do vote based on MSM stories, thats alot to do with the problem.

100% agree with you OP.

@Hertsgirl10

I agree with you OP.

Another thing that baffles me is not 1 person ever admits to voting Tory, they say oh I like to keep it private or something like that 😂 Why are they so ashamed to say they vote for the Tories but still do it?

Brexit and Jeramy Corbyn made people defect to Conservative

yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/12/23/their-own-words-why-voters-abandoned-labour

This was the start when labour started to not believe what the voters wanted. labour knew better and any voices were shouted down, preached to and criticised. Then came in the in house fighting and the antisemitism and the die hard corbynistsa and Corbyn reusing to step down even though his own voters hated him. Labour at this point stopped giving a shit about what their generational lifetime voters thought. They called those voters racists.They then were demanding a second referendum. Then they started to kick women out of their own party who believed in science and said males could not turn in to females.

By the way I voted Conservative and I will continue to do so whilst they are the ONLY party that doesn't tow the TWAW line and female Tory MPs are actively seeking to protect womens rights.

@Suspiciousmind20

I have to say, that I think a lot of it is about how the media report things and what they focus on. It has such a huge impact. They go for sensationalism and sound bites. They don’t report on things in any depth. Borris does great three word slogans. He is interesting because he is so awful and blatant and has an unusual personality. Corbyn had some great policies that would have really helped address social injustice and inequality but he was crap at getting things across in an interesting and succinct way. He could see the world for what it is, nuanced, complex - but that doesn’t translate into good media pieces so he was misquoted. Kier is full of integrity and is intelligent and a steady and safe pair of hands. But that doesn’t make good headlines either.

You have to actively search to find Labour’s position on things. They aren’t great at getting media on board. But then the main sources of news are mostly Tory owned and led. Often by the very rich for whom policies to address inequality would effect financially. Even the Independent is now owned by the Daily fail.

I don’t know what the answer is other than actively researching our options ourselves by going to the source, rather than relying on the media.

This is a very good summary of what’s going on.

Your horse is running in a two horse race against some useless old nag. You whack all four legs with a big branch, don't feed it properly for a fortnight and put a jockey on it who last completed in the over-65s donkey derby but rode in the wrong direction. Well then yes, you are at least partly responsible for the race being won by a useless old nag.

(Not to mention the disaster that is brexit.)

You are responsible for your decisions, noone else, if you didn't think the tories were able to run this country on the right way, you shouldn't have voted for them.
So yes its on you and noone else.

What about the 30% of the eligible population who couldn't be arsed to vote, is it not on them too?

I won't vote for Labour again until they give up on the misogynistic pursuit of self id. And once you've been called a hateful bigot for knowing that material biological reality of womanhood by the party you normally vote for adding hateful evil Tory to the list seems light relief.

"I won't vote for Labour again until they give up on the misogynistic pursuit of self id. And once you've been called a hateful bigot for knowing that material biological reality of womanhood by the party you normally vote for adding hateful evil Tory to the list seems light relief."

I totally agree with this.

I have never seen anyone blame Labour for Tory policies. I have seen lots of people point out why Labour are doing so badly.

I'm tired of hearing "but Labour...". If you voted for Boris Johnson's Conservative party, own it.

Many of us didn't, but didn't vote Labour.

Fair enough if you are an actual Tory

It's fair enough whoever people voted for, whatever their reason. These constant threads complaining people vote the wrong way are silly. If you want to persuade people then focus on positive attempts to explain why Labour's policies are better.

Does anyone know any Labour policies we could do that for?

@FourTeaFallOut

But Labour... is no excuse. Tory voters voted for a tory parliament. That's on them, no one else.

Yes, I get it - you are pissed off. All these previously good people who use to vote Labour became bad people over four years and voted Tory...And that's not on Labour? Right.

I dont think that at all @FourTeaFallOut. Neither party stand where I am, so I've no horse in the race. I'm lumbered with whatever donkey England votes in.

I am saying that people who voted Tory are to blame for this shambolic, sleazy shower. They should stop blaming others.