Nasty for them to exclude me?

[Korbah]

Last Christmas DH and I decided not to mix. I’m CEV and was due to be vaccinated in January, I didn’t want to risk my life at the last minute after I’d shielded for months. But his family were making plans including us, and I was worried it would get to the point where they’d say it’s too late to drop out, and I’d get pressured into it. DH said I’ll tell them but not right now... because he knew MIL would take a hissy fit and wanted to postpone it. I told DH I was finding it stressful and feeling like I was going to be pressured into something unsafe for my health, so he needed to tell them within 7 days or I’d tell them myself. He didn’t tell them - so I did. As nicely as possible.

MIL immediately left the group chat and blocked me. Apparently she cried for weeks because of not having her family Christmas. Nobody posted in the group chat ever again. I’ve seen MIL and the rest of DH’s family a couple of times since then and have chatted politely. So I figured MIL’s tantrum was forgotten.

Yesterday I saw DH texting in a new “Bloggs Family” chat. Looks like they’ve set up a new family chat with everyone except me. I got really annoyed and said it’s nasty to exclude me. DH said no no, it isn’t a new family chat... we were just texting each other. Well that is a new family chat then!

AIBU to just refuse to have anything to do with any of them ever again? They’ve purposely excluded me and I think it’s nasty, I don’t see how I’m supposed to see them and just ignore it.

I seem to remember that OP said that DH told her she couldn't be added to the new group chat when she found out about it because if he did that MIL would leave.
Which means there's been a discussion about it and he's agreed to abide by MIL's rule and not re-include his wife. Or maybe he's worried about what she will be able to read if she's allowed into the group?

This punishment has gone on for a year. Utterly unreasonable.

Just wondering if the DH suffers from scape goat syndrome, as I've seen this family dynamic before. The DH was previously the lowest in the pecking order (he's the youngest isn't he?) and now he's delighted to escape MILs frequent ire because she can take it out on his wife instead. Spineless. He seems quite happy with his wife being treated like this. Its all so utterly stupid and unnecessary. All he had to do was say, my wife does all the photos and communication with you for six years, she's not being excluded now.. and call the MILs bluff.

I don't think rising above it counts in this situation as its ongoing, and there are no plans for anything to change the MIL and the DH both excluding OP in this way. Its bullying and treating her like a pariah. She's then expected to show up at family events and be polite to everyone, whilst well aware that she's been ousted with the acquiescence of her DH. That's a big elephant to have in the room. Personally I would be very reluctant to attend a gathering like that, it would be so awkward and humiliating.

"Rising above it" in circumstances like this just means that you'll let them carry on with .. and that you have accepted that if you don't obey every order from now on (no matter how unreasonable) that you accept there will be further punishment and this behaviour will escalate. Also means that you've agreed not to embarrass anyone (DH) by mentioning it. I suppose you can't blame the other siblings and partners because you don't know what they thought of it, but I guess they did co-operate with it.

Its very hard to know what course of action is best for OP and her DC in this instance.
But number 1, I'd ask DH to put you in the group come what may would be the first thing I'd do, to see what his reaction is. I'd also find it v hard to spend Christmas with MIL under these circumstances.

Two solutions:

1. You can go grey rock with MIL while maintaining basic family relations:

Get DH to add the family chat in his name to a third device - like an iPad. You'll have access to see everything that is said and shared. You can share DC pics and info as if it's DH writing.

Go to the minimum of family events that include MIL and just be polite grey rock behaviour - no drama - act as if you're not bothered by any of it. Away from MIL build your own strong bonds with the siblings and spouses - emails, texts from you etc so they know you are still part of the family (you're just avoiding MIL)

1. You're own version of nuclear (this one you need DH on board)

DH annouces in the group chat that he's not happy continuing in a 'family' chat that excludes his wife so he's going to add you, so he adds you. If MIL tantrums and leaves and creates new group then he simply repeats his previous statement and adds you again. If MIL tantrums and leaves again then DH does not join new chat. Of course this might escalate and you'll both have to be prepared to stand firm together. You and DH and DC have your own family Christmas - let DH take the kids to PIL for Boxing Day and then invite siblings to holiday dinner at your house etc.

I think your DH needs to stand up for you, calmly and politely.

If he posted in the group chat something like "look, this doesnt feel right that Korbah isn't included. We've made the peace and are looking forward to Christmas dinner this year, so I'm going to invite her into the chat, everybody okay with that?" what would happen? Surely if siblings then chimed in "yeah fine" etc would MIL just let it slide through?

DH should have told MIL straight away that you weren't coming. Is it just your DH that gets this reaction from your MIL ie not talking to him when he had a gf etc or have the other siblings been on the receiving end of something similar?

It's very mean to have created a new chat group and exclude you. It's hurtful that your DH is part of it and it has only come to light now.

Going forward, I would not give any updates to individuals regarding DC. If anyone is interested they can Msg you directly for it. Gaging this, it might give you an indication if the rest of the family are actually interested in you and DC.

If so engage with the ones that are and don't waste your time with those that aren't

I would go along to the Christmas Dinner and be civil. Don't mention that you are excluded from the family group chat therefore do not know what's going on in people's lives.

If they mention x has happened, y did this z is going to etc just say great and give them lip service.

1. LTB

Do you like them though? If not I’d just enjoy the peace and leave them to it!

You don't just have a Mil problem you have a big DH problem.
If he can't support his own wife and has allowed his family to ignore you.
What a bast**d

My fiancé has a chat with his mum and brother, what’s your problem 🤨 bit childish.

I'd recommend your DH reads this, you too.

I suspect this fits MIL to a tee & so your DH & his siblings will too. One of them is likely the Golden Child. If that's your DH then going by my own DB, you have a bigger problem in that they won't want to change the dynamics, as on the surface, it benefits them. If not & he's willingly have his eyes opened, then there's some hope, but he really does need to wise up & grow a pair

beedavis Read the thread!!

Oops... Forgot the link

theawarenesscentre.com/narcissistic-parent/

@KimchiJjigae

beedavis Read the thread!!

Or at least the OPs updates

Your mil and dh are behaving terribly! I’d really struggle to attend a Christmas at hers knowing what you do now

I put YABU only because I would be glad to have less contact with these people, so would be grateful.
Your MIL sounds awful.

They're a bunch of cunts who are scared of your MIL. I'd tell my husband I'm never going to spend Christmas with the selfish bunch of cunts again, they know you're vulnerable yet treat you like this.
They could stick their what's app group and stick their Christmas, if my husband wanted to go he could but he'd be going alone. X

I am gobsmacked that anyone thinks the OP is U to feel excluded! I would, in addition, be hurt and angry at my DH for joining the group without me.

However, after that outrageous behaviour from your MIL I would actually not wish to be in any group with her and would keep communication to a bare minimum, as you are doing. She sounds like one of those appalling woman that control others by their fear of her temper/reaction to things.

I think you're both U to be honest. She was EXTREMELY U to indulge in tantrums and sulks at not having her ideal 'family Christmas' last year, when it was a matter of serious medical vulnerability - and at a time when the dangers of Covid were very publicized; it wasn't something of which she could have been unaware. I don't blame you for holding a grudge over that.

However, I do think that you are being U in expecting to be included in all the 'family chats' of your dh's family.

YANBU.

She's bonkers and he's a weak and cowardly mummy's boy. The only issue is that you have high expectations from small people. They won't change. This is who they are, this is what they do. You just need to decide if you can live with it.

If you can, I'd just lower my expectations, roll my eyes , stop using them as a benchmark for yourself because no matter how amazing you are they'll always fall short. If you want to go to the Christmas thing, put meh level of effort in it. It's never going to be a joyous celebration of the whole family getting together is it?

I have read more now; and it does sound as though your MIL is trying to exclude you for not prioritizing Christmas with her over your own health and perhaps life. I originally thought that this was a new group chat; it now sounds as though you were included in the past, but are being excluded now.

But in a way she's doing you a favour. Do you actually want to spend time dealing with this toxic character, who manipulates all her grown-up children into obeying her out of fear?

YANBU. But I agree with PPs that you very definitely have a DH problem, as he quite clear doesn’t have your back and is too much of a coward to stand up to his toxic mother.

@Korbah

you haven’t said if she has form for this type of behaviour Oh yes. DH was the last child living at home and when he got a girlfriend she didn’t speak to him for weeks. When he took me on holiday (leaving her at home with FIL) she didn’t speak to him for a month. On a shopping trip (back in the early days before I knew she was nuts) I offered to fetch her a bigger size because she was struggling to get her foot into the shoe she was trying - and she didn’t speak to me for weeks because apparently by suggesting a bigger size I’d implied she had fat feet. And one time she was telling us about some antivirus software she bought but we weren’t allowed to tell her it was a scam because that would be questioning her judgement and interfering in her personal affairs, and she would have taken a tantrum... so we kept quiet to keep the peace, and she ended up losing several hundred pounds before the bank stopped it.

I could continue but you get the gist. We aren’t allowed to say anything to her in case she takes a tantrum. Hence why DH didn’t dare tell her we weren’t coming for Xmas dinner.

@Korbah

i had this in a 'potential' MIL - she stopped everything. She hated him having a girlfriend. She threw tantrums. She still kissed him on the lips aged 17 years?? Had to be wrapped in a blanket when he left for university 37miles away because she sobbed so much despite it being her dream for him. Leaned across me at her house and told him the career he was going to have - he did what she said . She undermined everything we had and when I suggested that we move abroad (to make the most of travel and his medical research) you'd have thought she'd just stopped a bullet. 'What? take my baby boy?'.

In the end he did marry someone from abroad another doctor and stayed there but only because his mum chose her and high flyer background to suit her agenda. She was ALWAYS the victim but you were never allowed to call her out.

OP - this will not end well: you need to suit yourself. You will never please MIL and your husband is married to his mum.

Whatever you do put yourself first. (Let's face it those two have) You'll exhaust yourself if you pander to her whims.

DH isn't worth it. Look at how you are feeling now - torn. Yet you are not the one doing the tugging.

I truly hope whatever happens you have a wonderful Christmas and happy life.

It's not you

Christ on a stick. Your MIL sounds atrocious. But to be fair with everyone pandering to her tantrums and no one challenging them I cant imagine any change happening.

DH needs to grow a bit of a backbone here doesn't he?!

I'd make a whatsapp group and add everyone but MIL so you can have a drama free group. Yes she'll find out and freak out but quite frankly fuck her.

I'd be going minimal contact with the grandparents until DH can step up and stand up for his family unit to her.

Good luck.

I would be tempted to post in the original group saying that you have just been made aware that you have been excluded from a further group and will take that the family wishes to have nonfuther contact with you.

I would then be telling my DH he either included you in the group or left himself. If he refused I would be reconsidering my future with him as clearly he doesn't give a damp about how you feel.

Oh and no I wouldn't be going to Christmas. With the atmosphere this knowledge will bring it will be awful for you. Why should you put up with that over Christmas. And it goes without saying that the children would not be going either. I would be reducing their contact with family heavily if they can't respect their mother.

That’s terrible for you OP and I agree with PP that you have a DH problem as well as a MIL one.
It’s not that your MIL can be difficult, it’s that your DH followed her rules and cut you out to make her happy, without thought as to your happiness.