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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think there's a stigma over having a third child?

282 replies

Beachloveramy · 30/10/2021 03:20

Please tell me I'm not alone.

I already have a 14 year old I had quite young and a three year old (with my husband) and I'm 3 months pregnant with our third child.

As I've slowly told people about the pregnancy I've received a lot of comments such as "you're pregnant again?!"

Now, I don't exactly feel as if I've been popping them out, there are fairly big age gaps between my children. Myself and my husband do also both work full time and support our own family but for some reason I can't be completely excited about this baby as there seems to be a stigma associated.

I'm I being paranoid or are woman judged for having more than two children?

OP posts:
ThirdElephant · 30/10/2021 07:12

I feel like the 'oh, the environment thing doesn't matter because of the overall fertility rate in the West' comment kind of misses the point.

  1. A child born in a developed country like the UK will have a larger environmental footprint than one born elsewhere.
  2. We don't actually, as a planet, want to increase or even maintain the number of people living in countries like ours. Economically we do, but tbh the problem is that we're continually and consistently putting money ahead of the health of the planet. Needing future taxpayers in the mid-term is not enough of a reason to increase pressure on the planet in the long term by having more kids. We should plan for an aging population and cope with the tax shortfall of the future in whatever way we can (taxing business properly would go a bloody long way towards this) rather than try and have more kids, because at the rate we're going the planet will be screwed before those kids reach retirement anyway. Once again, we're sacrificing our kids' future to ensure our own comfort.
ParmigianoReggiano · 30/10/2021 07:23

@tiggerwhocamefortea

Ah the environmentally sanctimonious who base being childfree decisions around environmental concerns - they ought to ponder who exactly it will be paying for their pensions one day 🤔
No one will be - chances are there won't be a state pension by then!
DukeofEarlGrey · 30/10/2021 07:23

I don’t judge people for the number of children they have but the link between population growth and climate change is pretty unequivocal. It’s a different point from the economic one and not mitigated by things like ‘better opportunities for women’. Climate change eclipses these things as an imperative so we shouldn’t in any way diminish the discussion about it.

There’s more info here about the population growth factor:

populationmatters.org/climate-change

carpetbugs · 30/10/2021 07:27

We should plan for an aging population and cope with the tax shortfall of the future in whatever way we can (taxing business properly would go a bloody long way towards this) rather than try and have more kids, because at the rate we're going the planet will be screwed before those kids reach retirement anyway. Once again, we're sacrificing our kids' future to ensure our own comfort.

We aren't having enough kids though in the west, & not enough is being done to manage the ageing population. That scares me more tbh.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/20/britain-falling-birthrate-covid-pandemic-conservatives-removed-support-for-parents

DukeofEarlGrey · 30/10/2021 07:27

@tiggerwhocamefortea

Ah the environmentally sanctimonious who base being childfree decisions around environmental concerns - they ought to ponder who exactly it will be paying for their pensions one day 🤔
I’m not childfree for this reason (I would love to have a child) but either way am planning to pay for my own retirement. In the meantime, I pay higher rate tax that contributes to state schooling and many other services that benefit children. And am very happy to do so as part of a community.
THOSEcobwebsareDECOR · 30/10/2021 07:33

I think 3 is still considered 'normal' We have 6. I noticed a difference in peoples reactions from 4 onwards. But really i couldn't give a shit.

ShepherdMoons · 30/10/2021 07:33

I know a lot of friends with three or more children! I haven’t come across a stigma. I just feel total admiration for anyone with three or four children! I have one and it’s bloody hard work!

Youcancallmeval · 30/10/2021 07:33

I think I was a judgy person when my bf told me she was pregnant with her third, because I knew it would mean our relationship changed. It did, massively. Obviously she had to do what suited her, but selfishly I miss her.

cultkid · 30/10/2021 07:35

I'm having my third and I keep getting asked if it was planned

I haven't told many people this time

Even been asked by people I don't know if I'm
Pregnant

So rude

Peaseblossum22 · 30/10/2021 07:35

I’m not childfree for this reason (I would love to have a child) but either way am planning to pay for my own retirement.

Whilst I take your wider point, presumably your savings that you plan to live off are invested. Who do you think will be working in the businesses in which you are invested, to enable them to pay the dividends that pay your pension, who will be the doctors that look after you if you are ill, the people who work in the shops , drive the trains/buses etc , produce the food you eat and most of all pay tax in order for public services to continue.

FlatStanletta · 30/10/2021 07:35

Personally, although I agree that environmental factors may be an issue for some to comment, no one said anything about that to me when I was pregnant with my third.

I got a lot of “oooh you’ll have your hands full” and “rather you than me” and even “holy crap!” when I announced the pregnancy which was slightly hurtful as I would’ve thought you say congratulations no matter what you think inside! Plus I have always wanted 3 kids and was quite open about that so not sure why anyone was surprised… we had about 3 years between each kid so not an unusual age gap either!

FlatStanletta · 30/10/2021 07:36

Most people only said nice things though!

cultkid · 30/10/2021 07:36

A three year old is not a big gap

carpetbugs · 30/10/2021 07:36

In the meantime, I pay higher rate tax that contributes to state schooling and many other services that benefit children. And am very happy to do so as part of a community.

That's a lovely attitude but unfortunately there is not going to be enough money. Look at the NHS now, look at the increased NI & CT. That's not going to be anywhere near enough.

The UK median age is already 40.

By 2030, one in five people in the UK (21.8%) will be aged 65 or over, 6.8% will be aged 75+ and 3.2% will be aged 85+ (ONS, 2017b).
• The 85+ age group is the fastest growing and is set to double to 3.2 million by mid-2041 and treble by 2066 (5.1 million; 7% of the UK population)

This is scary unless we start seriously planning for it.

ViceLikeBlip · 30/10/2021 07:36

Yes, three kids is certainly seen by many people to be "frivolous", or at the very least "excessive". I've got four 😜

Perpetualnoise · 30/10/2021 07:37

I have three. I definitely noticed a few raised eyebrows.
The children vs climate thing is tricky, I think, but fertility rates are lower than they've ever been
Instinctively I wouldn't want more, but as an economic thing, we are truly fucked if the rates drop any more, as with an ageing population, without people to pay into the tax pot/ physically care for people in decline,it will get messy, unless we bring more migrants here.
It's not black and white, at all.

Congratulations on your pregnancy OP! I love having three, even though it's a handful at times Flowers

RussianSpy101 · 30/10/2021 07:39

I have 3 and I’ve never felt this way. I think it’s more likely shock at the fact you’re having another when you have a 14yo. People tend to be more shocked by big gaps than number of children, IMO.

BarbaraofSeville · 30/10/2021 07:40

But if people are justifying more children so they can care for and pay for retirees, what happens when they get old and need the same? That's just a pyramid scheme and they all collapse eventually.

carpetbugs · 30/10/2021 07:45

@BarbaraofSeville it is a pyramid scheme but what do you do about it when you have lots of old people & no young people?

Icebreaker99 · 30/10/2021 07:45

If you can support three kids financially and emotionally than great, if you are going to struggle both emotionally and monatary to the detriment of your current or future children or are doing it because you just love babies and/or have a dream of a picture perfect big family without any thought or means for your children's future then that is not so great.

Shadowboy · 30/10/2021 07:46

For me it’s the planetary impact. No need for population reasons; if everyone did it, it would be hideous for the planet.

But there must be some people having 3 as UKs fertility rate was 2.3 last time I looked.

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 30/10/2021 07:47

Honestly - you'll always get SOMEONE getting a jibe in, however many kids you have, of whatever flavour!

one kid - Oh, only child, won't they be lonely? Or spoilt?
two boys - oh, wouldn't you rather have had one of each?
two girls - ditto
plus "will you be trying for a 3rd to see if you get a girl/boy this time?"
three is when the "don't you know how it happens?" starts.

There is NO right way to do it, except possibly the "one of each" option. And people just can't help themselves from needing to comment!

carpetbugs · 30/10/2021 07:47

This is uncharted territory

"The new study predicts that the number of under-fives will fall from 681 million in 2017 to 401 million by 2100, while the number of over 80-year-olds will soar from 141 million to 866 million over the same period."

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.theweek.co.uk/107523/global-population-to-start-shrinking-44-years-reaction%3famp

carpetbugs · 30/10/2021 07:48

@Shadowboy the UK birth rate is well below that at 1.65

DukeofEarlGrey · 30/10/2021 07:48

@carpetbugs

In the meantime, I pay higher rate tax that contributes to state schooling and many other services that benefit children. And am very happy to do so as part of a community.

That's a lovely attitude but unfortunately there is not going to be enough money. Look at the NHS now, look at the increased NI & CT. That's not going to be anywhere near enough.

The UK median age is already 40.

By 2030, one in five people in the UK (21.8%) will be aged 65 or over, 6.8% will be aged 75+ and 3.2% will be aged 85+ (ONS, 2017b).
• The 85+ age group is the fastest growing and is set to double to 3.2 million by mid-2041 and treble by 2066 (5.1 million; 7% of the UK population)

This is scary unless we start seriously planning for it.

Thanks @carpetbugs that gives me more insight without being aggressive and highlights the complexity of these issues, the point being that all factors are inextricably linked and decision making at a societal level will always be about a series of trade offs, rather than one imperative trumping another.

I did some research a while ago to try and understand what I could/should be doing as an individual to help combat climate change and learned that sponsoring the education of girls in developing countries can have a significant impact on population growth in the parts of the world where it matters most. In some parts of sub-Saharan Africa for example, the birth rate is 7 children per girl/woman and the longer a girl stays in school, the less likely she is to become a child bride and have so many children. There are also many additional benefits to the girl of course.