Son changing with Mum at gym swimming

[tailspin21]

Firstly, I know IABU posting in this section when it's not technically but I could really use impartial opinions and I know this is one place I can get them!
So, the conundrum. DS is 8, coming up 9 years old. We go for a swimming lesson twice a week, the pool is attached to a local gym. The men's changing room is one side of the pool and the women's is the other, so they're not side by side. Hubby can't (or won't - different thread!) come with. I am very conscious that women are changing in there - there are cubicles and DS always gets changed in a cubicle, but not every woman does not should they have to. My question is how much longer before he really needs to be going into the men's? I'm becoming increasingly aware but what is the magical cut off?! On the one hand I don't want him making other women uncomfortable. On the other, as an 8 year old alone in the men's changing room he's vulnerable himself. Am I overthinking? When should he be making that move? He's not always the most sensible but is generally not completely daft!

@Brefugee adult males are a threat to children of both sexes so yes OP and other posters are of course going to worry about thier boys. This is why I do not spend money in a place with inadequate facilities. If enough Mums of boys do this and let the gyms know why hopefully things will change.

Nobody knows his age just by looking at him, so you need to judge this yourself before you are challenged.

I think you will know the moment. It's when he gets embarrassed or sniggery about women's bits and his own. The moment he is self-conscious enough not to want you to help him in the bath and closes his bedroom door when he's changing, he shouldn't be in the women's changing rooms any more.

Once, in a caravan/campsite toilet block, there was a boy about 8 or 9 in with his mum who climbed on the bench to peer down into my shower cubicle. He was getting an eyeful when I spotted him. He got a second eyeful of water scooped from the flow the moment I spotted him!

I yelled at the mum that her son was too big for the Ladies' now as he was taking an interest. They were gone - without apology - by the time I emerged. 😠

I am amazed at the responses of some here. There is no way that any male should be in the female spaces after 8 (and I would actually rather 7). I would have no qualms about sending a 7 or 8 year old child into their own sexed changing rooms even if there are (shockingly clutching pearls) adults of the appropriate sex there.

@arethereanyleftatall

At our pool we have great big signs on the doors of changing rooms saying something like 'no males over 8 in here'. (Or better words!) How do those of you who do take boys over 8 in to female spaces, explain to your boys when they they ask about the sign, and why it doesn't apply to them?

There needs to be;

1. A girls changing room.
2. A boys changing room.
3. Unisex family changing rooms
4. Disabled changing rooms.

Every time.

And when there’s not? I guess then us Mother’s of SEN males just stay at home and accept our kids won’t learn to swim. Sounds very inclusive.

@NewlyGranny

Nobody knows his age just by looking at him, so you need to judge this yourself before you are challenged.

I think you will know the moment. It's when he gets embarrassed or sniggery about women's bits and his own. The moment he is self-conscious enough not to want you to help him in the bath and closes his bedroom door when he's changing, he shouldn't be in the women's changing rooms any more.

Once, in a caravan/campsite toilet block, there was a boy about 8 or 9 in with his mum who climbed on the bench to peer down into my shower cubicle. He was getting an eyeful when I spotted him. He got a second eyeful of water scooped from the flow the moment I spotted him!

I yelled at the mum that her son was too big for the Ladies' now as he was taking an interest. They were gone - without apology - by the time I emerged. 😠

You threw piss in a child’s face?!

Tell him to identify as a woman! Job done!

@FreeBritnee

I'm very sorry for you, but the answer is not to take them into the women's. Women and girls do not need to, and should not be made to, give up their privacy and dignity just to "be kind". No.

You do need a solution. And the leisure centres need to sort that out. But the solution is not to make girls uncomfortable. It just isnt OK for you to take your son into a women's changing room.

My son is 10 and if I took him swimming by myself (tbf usually dp comes with me) I'd have to keep him with me as he has sen but we tend to use family changing cubicles instead which are for everyone.

I’m not a “paedo on every corner” person but I do believe that if you are a paedo, then the very places you would choose to hang out are the places where young children are nude, and separated from their parents. A swimming room changing room fits this bill.
Probably 99% of the time, they’d be fine, but when there’s a simple and easy way to avoid the small chance of something untoward happening, I won’t put them at risk for no reason.

I would have no issue whatsoever with your little boy changing in the ladies.

8-year olds are not babies. My 8-year old is almost 5ft tall, he can pass for 11-12. I'm pretty sure he could make not only young girls but many grown women uncomfortable.

He'd probably be a lot safer in the men's changing room, I've seen lots of links on Mumsnet of people being assaulted in the ladies but not one in the men's.

@HaveringWavering

What?

You threw piss in a child’s face?!

Water from the shower surely?!

@FreeBritnee, no need to miss swimming, you just get changed by the side of the pool.

My son is 7. He's unusually tall for his age and already looks over 8.

We've had to change our plans for his swimming lessons to another day and time so that a male family member can take him.

We've given him the firm message that once boys reach a certain age, their presence in women's changing facilities is no longer appropriate. Girls and women are entitled to their privacy and dignity. I can see just by looking around me that a lot of other mothers break this rule. However, I don't want mine growing up to believe women's duty is simply to roll over and capitulate to the superior male. That's the kind of attitude that leads to the very problematic, misogynistic culture we currently have.

I'm equally adamant that hell would freeze over before I'd allow him to change in the male changing areas without constant adult supervision. This is the direction the threat to women and children emanates from.

Sorry to all the NAMALTs out there. But this is an unassailable statistical fact.

@Ozgirl75

I’m not a “paedo on every corner” person but I do believe that if you are a paedo, then the very places you would choose to hang out are the places where young children are nude, and separated from their parents. A swimming room changing room fits this bill. Probably 99% of the time, they’d be fine, but when there’s a simple and easy way to avoid the small chance of something untoward happening, I won’t put them at risk for no reason.

But there IS a reason to expose them to this (in my view) extremely small, much less than 1% risk.

The reason is that there is a much bigger risk of a young girl being made uncomfortable by the presence of a boy her age in her own safe space.

Also there are cubicles in the men’s. The boy would not be wandering about naked.

@HaveringWavering
I've never known a shower to pour urine instead of water. If you cup your hand under your shower, it fills with water.
What sort of shower do you have that you would have a hand full of piss if you cupped it under the running water?

As for primary schools - and I've known hundreds - the children almost always change together for PE in KS1 (up to age 7) and separately at some point between there and Y5 (up to age 10) most usually around Y4.

If you have a two-form intake it's easy - boys in one classroom, girls in the other. I think there would rightly be ructions in most schools if Y6 children were expected to change together! Many girls have started their periods and developed breasts by age 10 or 11, a few even sooner.

Most places we've ever swum at have an 8+ rule for same sex changing rooms. Public pools tend to have a family changing area/cubicles or have gone down the one large mixed changing area (with small segregated women and mens rooms) and doors on showers.

DD swims in a squad and they aren't allowed in the changing rooms (Covid rates for kids are high). They arrive in kit and leave in shorts/synthetic joggers and hoodies or dry robes etc having towelled down poolside. They've managed to cope with this since last Summer.

If your DS arrives straight from school, could he put his trunks on there or in the toilets?

And when there’s not? I guess then us Mother’s of SEN males just stay at home and accept our kids won’t learn to swim. Sounds very inclusive.

I pick somewhere that does have suitable changing facilties.

I complain to places that don’t. I wouldn’t want to give them my money anyway.

But I don’t expect my 11 year old to have to get changed in the ladies as it’s not fair on him or on those using the ladies.

I’m shocked that so many people think 8 is old enough to be in a changing room with unknown adults alone. It’s a huge safeguarding risk.

Are there no pools with family changing facilities available near you?

I'm equally adamant that hell would freeze over before I'd allow him to change in the male changing areas without constant adult supervision. This is the direction the threat to women and children emanates from.

Sorry, can you explain that a bit further? I don my understand your last sentence.

DS ten has been arriving swim ready and going home in a onesie/ beach towel since covid. It’s so much easier and we won’t be reverting back to the changing rooms and squeezing into clothes whilst still damp.

I’m of the same mind and what I’ll take away from this thread is the reply from one particular poster who has managed to make her point come across chillingly. It says way more about her than any 8 year old.

I agree. This thread has made me feel sick. I’m ashamed to be affiliated with the GC movement if this is how vehemently so many women feel in regard to kids in changing facilities. Disgusting and I’m hiding the thread.

@Just10moreminutesplease

I’m shocked that so many people think 8 is old enough to be in a changing room with unknown adults alone. It’s a huge safeguarding risk.

Are there no pools with family changing facilities available near you?

It really isn’t.