Son changing with Mum at gym swimming

[tailspin21]

Firstly, I know IABU posting in this section when it's not technically but I could really use impartial opinions and I know this is one place I can get them!
So, the conundrum. DS is 8, coming up 9 years old. We go for a swimming lesson twice a week, the pool is attached to a local gym. The men's changing room is one side of the pool and the women's is the other, so they're not side by side. Hubby can't (or won't - different thread!) come with. I am very conscious that women are changing in there - there are cubicles and DS always gets changed in a cubicle, but not every woman does not should they have to. My question is how much longer before he really needs to be going into the men's? I'm becoming increasingly aware but what is the magical cut off?! On the one hand I don't want him making other women uncomfortable. On the other, as an 8 year old alone in the men's changing room he's vulnerable himself. Am I overthinking? When should he be making that move? He's not always the most sensible but is generally not completely daft!

I wonder how any of you manage on the bloody beach
It's now about how I feel on the beach or anyone else feels on the beach.

I believe that girls should grow up being taught that the preferences of the male class are more important than their own feelings of being uncomfortable and their own boundaries. I don't believe girls should be taught that they have to put up with male peers in single sex changing because the boy's parents don't want to make alternative arrangements.

People suggesting a trusted man takes a boy into male changing is not anti-feminist and it is laughable to suggest otherwise. Suggesting girls put up and shut up because you think your boy going swimming at a particular pool is more important than the privacy and dignity of girls is anti-feminist.

There are many healthy family activities in life. If you can't find a pool with appropriate facilities then do a different activity. Don't expect the girls to budge up around your preferences.

Edit:
I don't believe that girls should grow up being taught that the preferences of the male class are more important than their own feelings of being uncomfortable and their own boundaries

some people are very happy to list all the things they don't want to do, as this would inconvenience a young person of male sex, the solution being that girls have to be the ones giving up their right to privacy and feel vulnerable in their dedicated changing room. Yes, sounds like..the rest of the world.

So there you have listed loads of ways your son could swim, but you don't like any of them. Well, here's the thing, it's not anyone else's job to find a solution

None of which are viable.

So he doesn't swim, until one of them is!

What do people do when their boy needs to go to the toilet? Do you take them in the ladies until they are 10 year olds as well?

It's context dependent I think. My son (age 9) will change in the mens at his swim club and at a local.pool.

We've recently joined a health club at a hotel and in that place he changes in the woman's changing room with me as the mens has no cubicles and there are some men I don't like the look of changing at the same time. They are probably lovely etc... But I'd rather play it safe, so he stays with me.

Up to you, you r his parent. My son looks super young so can probably get away with it another year or two! If your son looks older, might be harder to allow him into woman's change area.

@Brefugee How about non binary/inter-sex/trans etc? What facilities do those children use?

Hmmmm, this is tricky. My son is 7, and I can’t imagine him being ok to go in the men’s alone next year.

That said, most swimming pools have family changing or changing villages now? With a choice of cubicles for all comers / single sex communal etc? Seems a good solution- go to one where there’s a family changing room to take your son into.

The other week we went to a swimming party (8th birthday) and the party mum made sure there was a dad there (even though her own husband had broken his leg and couldn’t come) to supervise the boys. Made sense, as there weren’t enough cubicles for all at this pool.

My son’s going to be assessed for ADD though so my expectations may be different

I wonder how any of you manage on the bloody beach.
If you choose to take off underwear or swimwear at a beach it is with the understanding that anyone could be watching. I expect a changing room to be single sex (with the exception if young children).

@TeaAndToastNameChange you are going to take him in the women changing room when he is 11 years old?
11 is the average age for boys to first watch porn. You are kidding yourself if you think an 11-year-old boy has no interest in sex.

@TeaAndToastNameChange Common sense! Context is key! 👍

What do people do when their boy needs to go to the toilet? Do you take them in the ladies until they are 10 year olds as well?

Yes sometimes!! If we r in a dodgy area, at an airport or somewhere busy, or somewhere I don't feel is safe for him to be in a men's toilet on his own!

(I work with sex offenders, and have met a larger than I'm comfortable with number of them who were abused/raped as children in public toilets. These experiences in some cases destroyed their mental health and set them on a path to substances, and for most they highlight it contributed to their later sexual offending. So I am extra cautious about public toilets. Probably more anxious than I need to be, but I'd rather keep my son safe )

@LolaSmiles

Edit: I don't believe that girls should grow up being taught that the preferences of the male class are more important than their own feelings of being uncomfortable and their own boundaries

Well said 👏🏼👏🏼

It’s all well and good saying “it’s up to you your his parent” but that doesn’t help the girls who are made to feel uncomfy by boys being there.

Sometimes you need to think about more than just yourself.

If you think someone in the changing rooms is that unsavoury then I assume you have reported their suspicious behaviour?

Sometimes you need to think about more than just yourself
But sirzy the world would end if women stop centring the preferences of the male half of society. First rule of life: women and girls should roll over and centre men and boys.
What would these boys do if they had to swim somewhere with appropriate facilities that preserve everyone's privacy and dignity, or wait until that was an option?

It's astonishing to see the number of people who think that the rules don't apply to them and that their judgement about what they perceive to be the immediate interest of their family is the only rule they need to observe.

And they feel good about that.

My 8 year old DD recently told me she didn’t want to go swimming anymore because she doesn’t want to get changed in front of the boys (who’s mum’s ignore the 8 year max notice). Why the fuck should my daughter give up swimming because she cannot comfortably get changed in the communal FEMALE changing room because there are 5 or 6 eight, nine or ten year old boys running around naked? Take your older boys OUT of the female changing rooms and give my daughter the privacy she bloody deserves!

Ive consistently recognised girls spaces so Im not disagreeing there.

But i dont think that you can report people you think are unsavory because I dont think you know who is in the changing room room and why they would flag up they were unsavory otherwise abuse would be vanishingly rare.

Just to reiterate the perfectly right tone of many posts here, your son wanting a swim does not take priority over girls having privacy at a time when they are very sensitive about their bodies. They're comfort and privacy get priority over your insecurities.

First of all your son is nearly 9, more than old enough to take on the responsibility to get himself dressed! As a teacher I have taken 7 and 8 years olds for swimming lessons and they manage just fine. Pupils, both male and female show sensitivity changing from year 2, they are not all okay with it and they don't have to be. They are all entitled to feel comfortable. It's a swimming lesson so there are presumably other boys the same age in the same boat. Also, if you are worried he is in there too long do what any mum does and ask someone to go in and check.

I daresay at nearly 9 he is more than ready for a bit of privacy himself, and this is more down to you being a bit overbearing and quite frankly entitled. He's growing up, you need to give home the opportunity to do that.

@PleasantBirthday

It's astonishing to see the number of people who think that the rules don't apply to them and that their judgement about what they perceive to be the immediate interest of their family is the only rule they need to observe.

And they feel good about that.

Yes. I've never seen such misuse of the word 'fair'!

One of my colleagues has an 11 year old boy. He and 6 of his friends have just been suspended for passing around covert pics of girls they’ve obtained on school premises.

But sure, 11 year olds in girls’ changing rooms. Totally fine. Who cares if girls are being sexualised?

It does explain why so many men feel entitled to expect women to put them first.

My priority are my children and keeping them safe. That's not a bad thing!! Of course, I am also considerate of others! In the hotel change area I use for example, my son changes with me when no other ladies are around. There are no children at the time we swim (6am), so no little girls in danger of seeing a boy in swim trunks.

I think most people consider others - then they make the decision that feels right and safe for them and their child, and is also courteous of others.

Keeping your children safe doesn't always mean you are on some sexist crusade against womankind!! Or are being selfish!! It just means you are trying to be a good mum!!

(What is wrong with Mumsnet these days!!!)

I am shocked all these mums are quite accepting of young boys with support needs being potentially put in a dangerous situation by going alone into the male facilities.
A young boy going in with his mum isn’t really going to be intimidating.
I think this man hating needs to not affect little boys with disabilities who need help to do zips and buttons etc.
Stop generalising and imaging lots of boys going in to look at all your precious daughters and think maybe once in a blue moon you may encounter a boy with his mum discreetly going into a cubicle as you have scared them into feeling uncomfortable going swimming!
There is a big difference. Perspective…