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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Suspicious behaviour

280 replies

PuzzlingPieces · 27/10/2021 15:01

Have toyed with posting this but here goes.

Recently, it has emerged that my DH has been accused of going through the underwear of a close female relative on two separate occasions when alone in their house. I knew absolutely nothing of this until family members accused DH directly of having a fetish. It has all come out since and I am devastated.

Context - the female family member is very particular about her belongings and refers to herself as OCD. The situation was presented to me as the female family member noticed on a recent visit after we had popped out for few hours leaving DH behind - that her underwear had moved. She found this odd but thought it could have been me or DC so tried to put out of mind.

On a further occasion a few weeks later the same thing happened - this time of an evening when DC in bed and everyone else out. She was obviously "looking" for this and feeling suspicious by this point.

In her mind there is/was no doubt that the belongings have moved as she is so particular. She doesn't leave her stuff around, ever, and the drawers are on the far side of the bedroom.

DH tells me that on first occasion, toddler age DC appeared with item earlier in day and he panicked, put it aside and then replaced it in the drawer when everyone was out so as not to look weird or draw attention to it.

On second occasion, he found a bra on the landing under our bedding (I know our bedding was on the landing) and panicked about this looking terrible especially after the first misunderstanding, so went to return it. Upon doing so he noticed just how organised the drawer was (hadn't done so on the first occasion due to speed) and panicked further so tried to "make" things look neat.

Family member referred to her drawer as a "total mess" after second occasion. Refutes the idea that DC could have obtained the item because the "nature" of the underwear was that it was at the back of the drawer not for day to day wear and child could not reach.

The landing where the bedding was is near to the laundry basket but I am told that the family member knows where her belongings are at all times (especially this one) and she is absolutely adamant it was removed from her drawer.

Family accused husband of the worst without explaining anything to me first. DH at first vehemently denied anything before later confessing that this was down to misunderstandings and gross oversteps of privacy, but not anything deviant as they suspect.

Family have now left me to it and say they will support my decision. I honestly don't know what to do or think. I am in total and utter shock. No previous indication of any inappropriate behaviour or fetish/sexual issues albeit my DH is someone that can have the odd social "clanger" so to speak.

We are happily married and I love my husband. I also love my family and don't think they have motive to lie and just want to protect me. They are willing to draw a line if I ask for that (easier said than done given how this was all explosively accused but that's a secondary issue until I can get this rationalised in my head!).

What would you believe / do?

And secondly, would you feel it reasonable to request a lie detector test in these circumstances? If a misunderstanding, very prepared to move on although very let down and devastated nonetheless. If the motive is something else (even just nosiness rather than anything more dreadful), what should I do? Appreciate in a marriage this should never be needed but I feel lost.

I want the truth even jf it's worst case scenario. My worst fear is that even if I choose to believe whatever I do, and move on (with help and counselling or whatever that may take) this may always niggle at me. It would also niggle at me if I left my husband, too. Totally lost.

OP posts:
Cerebelle · 28/10/2021 11:42

Bizarre apology and denial in this thread. The man cannot be wrong because:

  • SIL is lying about him going through her underwear even though he admitted it
  • SIL is mentally ill so can't be trusted even about agreed facts
  • SIL is paranoid to think that a man going through her underwear JUST MIGHT be a perv
  • His extremely flimsy excuses must be true (because man?)
  • Even if he did do it on purpose, its fine because he might have gender issues
  • Even if he was doing it for pervy reasons, it's not a big deal and might warrant an apology and a bit of ribbing at worst

Goodness me.

stitchy · 28/10/2021 11:50

Suggesting the family member is paranoid due to her OCD of no consequence, she was RIGHT he had been in her drawers as he ADMITTED it.

I have so much sympathy with the op for this as this is a dreadful position, trapped between people they love and the decision now is : 1 to believe his explanation, 2 to disbelieve him but sweep it under the carpet and stay together, 3 to disbelieve him and have an open and honest exchange with the goal of getting a proper honest explanation, proper apologies to the family member and for him to address his behaviour and seek help (an underwear fetish is not particularly out there but decieving other people and using personal intimate items of theirs without their knowledge or consent for sexual thrills is repugnant) 4 to disbelieve him and end the marriage because of it.

It's the most awful position to be in and I imagine the temptation to do 2 is overwhelming as pretending nothing has happened and carrying on seems like the easiest option now but in the long term is probably the hardest. Always being on the alert for odd behaviour and not really trusting him, not wanting to leave your husband with anyone you're close to just in case. Ending the marriage must feel so drastic though.

AmyDudley · 28/10/2021 12:47

I can't imagine any reason why someone would go into someone's underwear drawers (or any drawers) for any reason other than an unacceptable one. If I found underwear/ my toddler had found some underwear I'd put it on the bed or on top of the dresser - I wouldn't open someone else's drawers except my spouse's. It's a total invasion of privacy. And doing it twice ? Totally unbelievable.
But if yo could live with someone with a fetish then that is up to you. It doesn't necessarily mean he's a bad person, but he needs to be honest (and his lying up until now i would find hard to take) and he needs to get help about controlling his urge or confining them to his own home.

Forget lie detector tests - they are psuedo-scientific nonsense, and where would you even get one. The fact is if you have to get a machine to tell you whether he is lying or not then the trust is gone in both directions - either "result" would be bad news. If he's "lying" you lose trust, if he's "not lying" he knows you don't trust him - its hard to move on from any of that.

Personally I would sit down with him tell him that we can only move forward if he is totally honest, that you don;t buy his story and you want to know the truth. From there and from his reaction you can decide on your own feelings and what your boundaries are for going forward and firmly draw lines that if he crosses it will be the end. (If that is what you want.)

TheGirlCat · 28/10/2021 14:16

@HoldingTheDoor

And yet everyone is ignoring the fact that people diagnosed with OCD as the female relative is do in fact have paranoia as a symptom and do in fact often accuse relatives of things that they never did....

Because it's utter bollocks. I have OCD(99% of mine is not related in any way with germs/cleanliness) and I do not have paranoia in the sense that you are using it. I know no one who has. Accusing people of doing things that they didn't is not a standard symptom of OCD. If you have OCD and find yourself developing paranoia of other people please see your Dr asap because it is very likely that there's something else going on too.

The ignorance about OCD on here is staggering and harmful if people are going to dismiss accusations made by someone with OCD because they mistakenly believe that paranoia is normal for them.

Well I do have OCD, and I know that paranoia is often, if not always involved.
Motnight · 28/10/2021 14:18

It doesn't matter if the female relative is paranoid or not regarding this scenario. The dh has admitted that he has gone through her underwear drawers. Which points to her not being paranoid but that surely isn't the real issue here.

limitedperiodonly · 28/10/2021 14:19

I've read the whole thread and am still mystified why OP's bedding and her female relative's bra were next to the laundry basket. I don't have OCD or paranoia but I would be a bit ticked off about the laziness there.

More troubling thoughts: Whose landing was it? How did these items come to be mixed up? Was it the female relative's landing and the husband nipped into her bedroom to drop one of his usual clangers or was it his and OP's house necessitating a trip round to the female relative's house when no one was in?

It would have been much easier if after perving on her underwear he'd just thrown them away. But maybe he wanted her to know he'd been rifling through her undies. I have no idea how some people's minds work.

limitedperiodonly · 28/10/2021 14:20

In any case, he wouldn't be coming round to my house in future.

TheGirlCat · 28/10/2021 14:32

@ChargingBuck

He sees it, is afraid he will be accused again, so tries to rectify it by putting it where he thinks it goes, in her underwear draw. He may have been better leaving it where he found it, BUT, whose to say she wouldn't have accused him of taking it and leaving it on the landing, anyway?

Nope, @TheGirlCat
At the time he sets eye on the bra - the second incident - he has not yet been 'accused' by SiL. So that defence doesn't fly.

Innocent people tend to blurt out the truth, even when embarrassed.
This man's first instinct was to lie - in fact he "vehemently denied anything*.
He then backed down to "misunderstandings and gross oversteps of privacy".
& said "nothing deviant" had happened, as per family suspicions.
He then started up on the convoluted Toddler Defence.

If it was true, why would he not have just ruefully spoken up about the Toddler Defence as his first reaction, rather than the fourth thing he could think of?

It's balderdash.
The only part I'm inclined to believe is the "nothing deviant" - although I suspect have a very different view from him about what constitutes deviance.
I suspect DH means "don't panic, I didn't put them on, or wank over them" - so considers himself non-deviant.
I believe this could be true. All he wanted was quick fumble & visual thrill.
But I don't agree with DH's "not deviant" stance. I think it's fucking deviant to enter someone's bedroom on the sneak, ditto open their underwear drawers, & reckon yourself still a good bloke just because you didn't jizz all over your relative's underwear.

Also ... Peeping Tom stuff like this usually escalates.
It goes hand in hand with the brazen entitlement.

@ChargingBuck Use comprehensive and cognitive ability to re-read my post. I SAID he hadn't been accused then but he KNEW he would be accused. If you used comprehension it should have been more than obvious thus your post was null and void.
TheGirlCat · 28/10/2021 14:38

@HoldingTheDoor

That is not a standard symptom of OCD. Your children may have it but your posts paint all people with OCD as unreliable witnesses. We do not all have paranoia,. The way you're trying to compare you putting away household members' washing to a man going through the underwear drawer of another woman in a house that isn't his says it all though.
@HoldingTheDoor You are misinformed. As any actual Psychiatrist will tell you, Paranoia is a BASE level symptom of OCD. As someone who had OCD as a teen, that worsened after a car accident, I can promise you paranoia is at the very epicentre of any/all OCD conditions. As an OCD sufferer, Paranoia is the very epicentre of most flare ups.
Therealjudgejudy · 28/10/2021 14:44

I think OCD is derailing this thread.

Op, your husband is a creep, who has been going through your relatives underwear drawer, on more than one occasion. And admitted it!

He is the problem here. I wouldn't put up or make excuses for this behaviour.

ifIwerenotanandroid · 28/10/2021 14:47

I've only got as far as page 7 but what I'm wondering is this:

If husband noticed a bra under their bedding on the landing (I'm assuming it was the end of their stay & their bed had been stripped), why didn't husband assume it was his wife's & put it in their luggage? Wouldn't he think that the likeliest scenario was that in stripping the bed, some of their own items had been swept up with the sheets?

TheGirlCat · 28/10/2021 14:51

@ChargingBuck

He sees it, is afraid he will be accused again, so tries to rectify it by putting it where he thinks it goes, in her underwear draw. He may have been better leaving it where he found it, BUT, whose to say she wouldn't have accused him of taking it and leaving it on the landing, anyway?

Nope, @TheGirlCat
At the time he sets eye on the bra - the second incident - he has not yet been 'accused' by SiL. So that defence doesn't fly.

Innocent people tend to blurt out the truth, even when embarrassed.
This man's first instinct was to lie - in fact he "vehemently denied anything*.
He then backed down to "misunderstandings and gross oversteps of privacy".
& said "nothing deviant" had happened, as per family suspicions.
He then started up on the convoluted Toddler Defence.

If it was true, why would he not have just ruefully spoken up about the Toddler Defence as his first reaction, rather than the fourth thing he could think of?

It's balderdash.
The only part I'm inclined to believe is the "nothing deviant" - although I suspect have a very different view from him about what constitutes deviance.
I suspect DH means "don't panic, I didn't put them on, or wank over them" - so considers himself non-deviant.
I believe this could be true. All he wanted was quick fumble & visual thrill.
But I don't agree with DH's "not deviant" stance. I think it's fucking deviant to enter someone's bedroom on the sneak, ditto open their underwear drawers, & reckon yourself still a good bloke just because you didn't jizz all over your relative's underwear.

Also ... Peeping Tom stuff like this usually escalates.
It goes hand in hand with the brazen entitlement.

Sorry I misread your post. Yes it's true he hadn't been accused, however if he had a heightened sense of fear he may have felt scared. With me, sometimes ordinary things have a side of paranoia. I am afraid I am not doing something right, and the second time and afraid I will be caught out, exposed as a failure. As one social awkward person to another (OP's DH) I can sense that he would be afraid people may come to the wrong conclusions especially if he felt uneasy about replacing something in the drawer the first time. His reasoning methods ring true to me, and I will give an outline of this thread to my therapist next week when I see her but my feeling is she will say the same. He being a male panicked and felt putting the bra in the drawer was a better option than the relative finding a bra under his bedding.
TheChip · 28/10/2021 14:56

I'd like to know how, if the relative is OCD and knows exactly where her things are. This bra specifically known for being less used so placed at the back of the drawer. How did it end up in the bedding to begin with? How does he explain that one?

Honestly OP. It seems pretty obvious what he has been doing. The question is now about whether you can move on and live with this.

Was he trying to stash it to take home with him and then panicked thinking he was going to be caught, so quickly put it back, or was the whole part about it being in the bedding a complete lie.
If he was planning on taking it home, then that suggests his fetishis is escalating.

Have you ever stumbled upon underwear at home where you've thought "I can't remember buying this?"

CovoidOfAllHumanity · 28/10/2021 15:00

I am an actual psychiatrist and 'paranoia' is not a symptom of anything at all. It's not a term that appears in ICD or DSM or that any psychiatrist would ever use. It's a lay person term that has no agreed clinical meaning. People who have used it to me meant anywhere from 'a bit anxious about something' to 'full on delusional belief' and all points in between which is why we don't use it technically.

The core feature of OCD is obsessional thoughts (which specifically are not psychotic because the person knows they are irrational) and compulsive behaviours to neutralise the thoughts. Checking and ordering are examples of compulsive behaviours and there could be a range of obsessional thoughts driving that.

It's also completely irrelevant to the thread because
A) the relative didn't have OCD only 'describes herself as having' it ie pretty definitely doesn't have it
B) she was completely correct as he admitted it and therefore not 'paranoid' at all.

It is a derail but I felt I should counter it because it seemed to be perpetuating the damaging myth that people with a mental illness should not be believed that has led many vulnerable people to be abused.

ChargingBuck · 28/10/2021 15:05

Well I do have OCD, and I know that paranoia is often, if not always involved.

Which means you have both OCD and a condition that causes you paranoia, @TheGirlCat.

Either way, I am sorry you have to manage such uncomfortable symptoms, & hope you are getting expert help Flowers

Starcaller · 28/10/2021 15:07

The family member just refers to herself as OCD, which suggests she just means it as a personality trait rather than a clinical diagnosis. People often use it (when they shouldn't) to mean they are just anal about stuff.

CaputApriDefero · 28/10/2021 15:59

If it was all just misunderstandings, why did he deny anything? Why didn't he just say? Because there's nothing wrong in what he says happened. Sounds like he denied and denied until he thought of something plausible.

Your relative should set up a motion detector camera.

Lotusmonster · 28/10/2021 16:13

@ChargingBuck

You didn’t read. I said it was 100% plain wrong!

I did read.
You wrote ... 100% plain wrong. But he might have gender identity issues.

The placement of that "But" is disturbing @Lotusmonster.
It shows your belief that despite his actions being wrong, if he had gender identity issues, it's understandable. Or mitigated. Or somehow ... well, something! - or why the fuck did you bring it up?

You might as well have written
"He grabbed her breasts, which was wrong, BUT he was only exploring his masculinity, 'cos he's got ishoos ..."

Oh ffs grow up. Don’t tell me what I think. That’s not what I think at all.
Lotusmonster · 28/10/2021 16:21

@FrenchieFromGrease

The only part I'm inclined to believe is the "nothing deviant" - although I suspect have a very different view from him about what constitutes deviance. I suspect DH means "don't panic, I didn't put them on, or wank over them" - so considers himself non-deviant. I believe this could be true. All he wanted was quick fumble & visual thrill. But I don't agree with DH's "not deviant" stance. I think it's fucking deviant to enter someone's bedroom on the sneak, ditto open their underwear drawers, & reckon yourself still a good bloke just because you didn't jizz all over your relative's underwear.

Also ... Peeping Tom stuff like this usually escalates.
It goes hand in hand with the brazen entitlement.

@ChargingBuck has nailed it

Your husband is a creep. A true dirty mac wearing, thigh rubbing creep. He has repeatedly invaded your relatives private space to get sexual thrills out of her belongings. He feels entitled to use your relative - a real life woman he has a close relationship with - to bolster his fantasies.

This goes way beyond a passing thought and makes me wonder what his next excalation will be. He's already made the jump from fantasising something to taking action in reality.

What exactly is the point in using this kind of horrible inflammatory language towards the OP? She’s not the perpetrator in this scenario. Sure, the guy may well be a creep. And as this unfolds, she and her family are going to struggle and suffer the realisation of this which could be long lasting. But she’s not committed the crime. So why speak to her like that?
THEDEACON · 28/10/2021 16:30

There's an awful lot of over reaction going on So your DH isn't as vanilla as you thought but he's hardly a sexual predator either

Derbee · 28/10/2021 16:36

@THEDEACON

There's an awful lot of over reaction going on So your DH isn't as vanilla as you thought but he's hardly a sexual predator either
He IS a creep though. He’s crossed a massive line, twice. You have no idea if he is a predator, or if/how his behaviour may escalate
limitedperiodonly · 28/10/2021 16:51

@TheGirlCat would this "heightened sense of fear" you attribute to OP's husband extend to being exposed as prowling in someone's knicker drawer or do you think he should be able to keep his paws off?

Terfydactyl · 28/10/2021 16:53

@ifIwerenotanandroid

I've only got as far as page 7 but what I'm wondering is this:

If husband noticed a bra under their bedding on the landing (I'm assuming it was the end of their stay & their bed had been stripped), why didn't husband assume it was his wife's & put it in their luggage? Wouldn't he think that the likeliest scenario was that in stripping the bed, some of their own items had been swept up with the sheets?

It was one of the first things occuring to me too. I guessed that he knows his wifes bra size and that the other womans was nothing close. But still if the man has an underwear fetish then he needs to buy his own.
Derbee · 28/10/2021 16:58

Why would your husband put a bra in someone’s underwear drawer? Even IF she decided it was ok to pick it up and return it to her room, why not put it on the bed/on top of the chest of drawers etc.

Very strange to open drawers, and actually go into an underwear drawer

Derbee · 28/10/2021 16:59

I think it’s a normal instinct to trust your husband.
But the more you think about it, the more holes you’ll see in his story, and the weirder you will realise it actually is