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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Suspicious behaviour

280 replies

PuzzlingPieces · 27/10/2021 15:01

Have toyed with posting this but here goes.

Recently, it has emerged that my DH has been accused of going through the underwear of a close female relative on two separate occasions when alone in their house. I knew absolutely nothing of this until family members accused DH directly of having a fetish. It has all come out since and I am devastated.

Context - the female family member is very particular about her belongings and refers to herself as OCD. The situation was presented to me as the female family member noticed on a recent visit after we had popped out for few hours leaving DH behind - that her underwear had moved. She found this odd but thought it could have been me or DC so tried to put out of mind.

On a further occasion a few weeks later the same thing happened - this time of an evening when DC in bed and everyone else out. She was obviously "looking" for this and feeling suspicious by this point.

In her mind there is/was no doubt that the belongings have moved as she is so particular. She doesn't leave her stuff around, ever, and the drawers are on the far side of the bedroom.

DH tells me that on first occasion, toddler age DC appeared with item earlier in day and he panicked, put it aside and then replaced it in the drawer when everyone was out so as not to look weird or draw attention to it.

On second occasion, he found a bra on the landing under our bedding (I know our bedding was on the landing) and panicked about this looking terrible especially after the first misunderstanding, so went to return it. Upon doing so he noticed just how organised the drawer was (hadn't done so on the first occasion due to speed) and panicked further so tried to "make" things look neat.

Family member referred to her drawer as a "total mess" after second occasion. Refutes the idea that DC could have obtained the item because the "nature" of the underwear was that it was at the back of the drawer not for day to day wear and child could not reach.

The landing where the bedding was is near to the laundry basket but I am told that the family member knows where her belongings are at all times (especially this one) and she is absolutely adamant it was removed from her drawer.

Family accused husband of the worst without explaining anything to me first. DH at first vehemently denied anything before later confessing that this was down to misunderstandings and gross oversteps of privacy, but not anything deviant as they suspect.

Family have now left me to it and say they will support my decision. I honestly don't know what to do or think. I am in total and utter shock. No previous indication of any inappropriate behaviour or fetish/sexual issues albeit my DH is someone that can have the odd social "clanger" so to speak.

We are happily married and I love my husband. I also love my family and don't think they have motive to lie and just want to protect me. They are willing to draw a line if I ask for that (easier said than done given how this was all explosively accused but that's a secondary issue until I can get this rationalised in my head!).

What would you believe / do?

And secondly, would you feel it reasonable to request a lie detector test in these circumstances? If a misunderstanding, very prepared to move on although very let down and devastated nonetheless. If the motive is something else (even just nosiness rather than anything more dreadful), what should I do? Appreciate in a marriage this should never be needed but I feel lost.

I want the truth even jf it's worst case scenario. My worst fear is that even if I choose to believe whatever I do, and move on (with help and counselling or whatever that may take) this may always niggle at me. It would also niggle at me if I left my husband, too. Totally lost.

OP posts:
Offmyfence · 28/10/2021 07:26

Neither side sounds plausible...... sorry that doesn't help!

HoldingTheDoor · 28/10/2021 07:49

And yet everyone is ignoring the fact that people diagnosed with OCD as the female relative is do in fact have paranoia as a symptom and do in fact often accuse relatives of things that they never did....

Because it's utter bollocks. I have OCD(99% of mine is not related in any way with germs/cleanliness) and I do not have paranoia in the sense that you are using it. I know no one who has. Accusing people of doing things that they didn't is not a standard symptom of OCD. If you have OCD and find yourself developing paranoia of other people please see your Dr asap because it is very likely that there's something else going on too.

The ignorance about OCD on here is staggering and harmful if people are going to dismiss accusations made by someone with OCD because they mistakenly believe that paranoia is normal for them.

HoldingTheDoor · 28/10/2021 07:55

I don't know what's more depressing. The staggeringly misinformed and ignorant view of people with mental illness or the fact that some people can come up with an excuse for anything at all that a man does.

PlanDeRaccordement · 28/10/2021 08:06

@HoldingTheDoor

I don't know what's more depressing. The staggeringly misinformed and ignorant view of people with mental illness or the fact that some people can come up with an excuse for anything at all that a man does.
My DB and DS have OCD, so I hope you are not calling me “staggeringly misinformed and ignorant” or the other poster who said they had been a victim of an OCD diagnosed relatives strange accusations.

I also have schizophrenia and ADHD. Have two DDs with ASD and a husband with Psychotic Depression.

So all in all, am very well experienced with mental illness in general and OCD relatives specifically.

PlanDeRaccordement · 28/10/2021 08:12

@HoldingTheDoor

And yet everyone is ignoring the fact that people diagnosed with OCD as the female relative is do in fact have paranoia as a symptom and do in fact often accuse relatives of things that they never did....

Because it's utter bollocks. I have OCD(99% of mine is not related in any way with germs/cleanliness) and I do not have paranoia in the sense that you are using it. I know no one who has. Accusing people of doing things that they didn't is not a standard symptom of OCD. If you have OCD and find yourself developing paranoia of other people please see your Dr asap because it is very likely that there's something else going on too.

The ignorance about OCD on here is staggering and harmful if people are going to dismiss accusations made by someone with OCD because they mistakenly believe that paranoia is normal for them.

My DB has severe OCD and has paranoia “the way I am using it”. He used to regularly accuse my other younger DB of stealing and destroying his things when it was simply that he’d hidden them (to keep them safe from other DB) and then forgotten where he put them because he’d panic and start screaming the house down when he didn’t see them in their usual place.

I was always the one stopping him from physically attacking little DB, calming him down and helping him find his things...in his room...where they had always been.

Cantstopthewaves · 28/10/2021 08:14

Either he's some kind of Mr.Bean character or he's lying.

HoldingTheDoor · 28/10/2021 08:17

That is not a standard symptom of OCD. Your children may have it but your posts paint all people with OCD as unreliable witnesses. We do not all have paranoia,. The way you're trying to compare you putting away household members' washing to a man going through the underwear drawer of another woman in a house that isn't his says it all though.

sammylady37 · 28/10/2021 08:25

@HoldingTheDoor

That is not a standard symptom of OCD. Your children may have it but your posts paint all people with OCD as unreliable witnesses. We do not all have paranoia,. The way you're trying to compare you putting away household members' washing to a man going through the underwear drawer of another woman in a house that isn't his says it all though.
Absolutely. OCD is a neurotic illness. Paranoia is a psychotic symptom. Unfortunately, the word ‘paranoid’ is used in general parlance all too often and is misused and often misunderstood. In the correct medical sense of the word, paranoia is absolutely not a common symptom of OCD.
TimeForTeaAndG · 28/10/2021 08:25

The OP doesn't say the relative has been diagnosed as having OCD. She says she refers to herself as OCD. So probably in the way so many people misuse it. "Oh I just have to have my curtains ironed, I'm so OCD."

Pinkfairylights · 28/10/2021 08:51

OP, your husband is a creep who has admitted to twice rummaging through your relative's underwear drawers.

The why almost doesn't matter. He has massively overstepped boundaries and I'd consider my future with him.

Dalalalada · 28/10/2021 09:05

Cool story, bro

problembottom · 28/10/2021 09:31

What a creepy thing to do.

We have a creepy relative in our family who does shit like this and his behaviour has escalated as the years have gone on. His wife always buys his bullshit explanations, much like the people on here who are trying to explain this away. I wonder how far he’ll go and it worries me.

ChargingBuck · 28/10/2021 09:49

Not necessarily. I mean going through anyone’s belongings without permission 100% plain wrong. But he might have gender identity issues. It can happen later on in life.

@Lotusmonster whatever anyone's sexual orientation, whatever sex they are, whatever gender they think they would like to be ... none of it mitigates the gross intrusion of going uninvited into someone's bedroom for a rummage in their underwear.

I'm a little disturbed by how you present the notion of gender confusion as a mitigating circumstance.
Almost as if men's feelings trump women's rights, & women's privacy, & respect for women's personal space ...

SequinnedShawl · 28/10/2021 09:58

Why was he wandering around someone else's bedroom in the first place?

If it sounds like a duck, walks like a duck and looks like a duck... Hmm

ChargingBuck · 28/10/2021 10:02

@Naunet

Fascinating to see so many people rush to make nasty comments about the woman involved, based purely on a tiny amount of info on her. She’s “crazy”, jealous, manipulative etc. I guess this is how juries in rape cases work.
Thank you @Naunet. There's a distressing amount of disablism leaking through the thread - dodgy assumptions about OCD, labelling as "MH problems" etc. & you are so right to point out the wider implications "man excused, man believed, woman's evidence & fact-finding bound to be faulty".

See also the gender apologist on page 8.
Apparently, if the DH is trying to work out gender identity issues (via his SiL's pants, hey ho), no moral boundaries have been breached.
It makes the intrusion, privacy violation, & deviant behaviour AOK!

Because DH has feelings so SiL cannot simultaneously have rights or respect.

ChargingBuck · 28/10/2021 10:19

He sees it, is afraid he will be accused again, so tries to rectify it by putting it where he thinks it goes, in her underwear draw. He may have been better leaving it where he found it, BUT, whose to say she wouldn't have accused him of taking it and leaving it on the landing, anyway?

Nope, @TheGirlCat
At the time he sets eye on the bra - the second incident - he has not yet been 'accused' by SiL. So that defence doesn't fly.

Innocent people tend to blurt out the truth, even when embarrassed.
This man's first instinct was to lie - in fact he "vehemently denied anything*.
He then backed down to "misunderstandings and gross oversteps of privacy".
& said "nothing deviant" had happened, as per family suspicions.
He then started up on the convoluted Toddler Defence.

If it was true, why would he not have just ruefully spoken up about the Toddler Defence as his first reaction, rather than the fourth thing he could think of?

It's balderdash.
The only part I'm inclined to believe is the "nothing deviant" - although I suspect have a very different view from him about what constitutes deviance.
I suspect DH means "don't panic, I didn't put them on, or wank over them" - so considers himself non-deviant.
I believe this could be true. All he wanted was quick fumble & visual thrill.
But I don't agree with DH's "not deviant" stance. I think it's fucking deviant to enter someone's bedroom on the sneak, ditto open their underwear drawers, & reckon yourself still a good bloke just because you didn't jizz all over your relative's underwear.

Also ... Peeping Tom stuff like this usually escalates.
It goes hand in hand with the brazen entitlement.

ChargingBuck · 28/10/2021 10:27

And yet everyone is ignoring the fact that people diagnosed with OCD as the female relative is do in fact have paranoia as a symptom and do in fact often accuse relatives of things that they never did....

We're really not, @PlanDeRaccordement
You are confusing "ignoring" with "dismissing as untrue".

What has happened is that you have ignored the fact that paranoia is not a symptom of OCD. I don't know why, as a qualified psychiatrist kindly @'d you to point this out, upthread.

ChargingBuck · 28/10/2021 10:46

Then do no men put away laundry in your family? We are not talking about strangers or even close friends here, but a family. Why is it ok for me to wash, dry, sort, fold and put away laundry....going into male relatives bedrooms and putting it in their drawers, but not for a man to do essentially the same? Put away underwear where it belongs? I find it very odd this idea that all men cannot ever touch a female relatives clean underwear without it being indecent or creepy.
Yet most are happy to hang it outside to dry on full display to a neighbourhood full of strange men?
These “rules” seem a double standard and make no sense.

Nuclear family, who all share a common roof? - Sure.
A man's SiL, from a different household? - Nope.

Besides, @PlanDeRaccordement - he wasn't doing her laundry.
That's like a car thief pleading mitigation because "he was only taking it for a service"!

Nobody is on the fainting couch because a man cannot ever touch a female relative's clean underwear, Plan.
They are baulking at the fact that a non-resident adult male went into a woman's private bedspace, & through her underwear drawers - twice.
That's breaking a pretty universal taboo - & that's what people are crying foul over.

When challenged, it took him until his 4th excuse to land on the Toddler Defence. If it really was the toddler, DH would have said so first time.
Not "I didn't do anything", followed by "I grossly overstepped privacy", followed by "but I didn't do anything deviant" & finally ... "it wasn't me Miss, the toddler did it."

Sadly, I doubt this will convince you, as you seem determined to paint the SiL as a paranoid troublemaker, & the DH as a hapless Frank Spencer type, vilely accused for handling some clean pants ... because he might just as decently have been kindly doing SiL's laundry ..? [hmmm]

Lotusmonster · 28/10/2021 10:47

@ChargingBuck

Not necessarily. I mean going through anyone’s belongings without permission 100% plain wrong. But he might have gender identity issues. It can happen later on in life.

@Lotusmonster whatever anyone's sexual orientation, whatever sex they are, whatever gender they think they would like to be ... none of it mitigates the gross intrusion of going uninvited into someone's bedroom for a rummage in their underwear.

I'm a little disturbed by how you present the notion of gender confusion as a mitigating circumstance.
Almost as if men's feelings trump women's rights, & women's privacy, & respect for women's personal space ...

You didn’t read. I said it was 100% plain wrong!
ChargingBuck · 28/10/2021 10:57

@Rollmopsrule

I think your families reaction and accusations are more concerning. Why didn't the woman have a quiet chat with you about her concerns? Why make it such a drama?
Oh joy, we're back in Rape Culture World, where any woman who has the temerity to make a direct accusation against a man must first consider how to not upset anyone else. Where she is to blame for making a direct accusation. Where she must instead go quietly to her female relative, so no fuss is made.

Because her feelings, her violation, her broken taboo, are not as important as making sure nobody gets embarrassed.

So yeah - let's call it a drama.
But please engage your brain @Rollmopsrule - the violated person doesn't make it such a drama. That's the perpetrator.
And anyone who then objects to the "drama" is clearly placing the perpetrator above the violated party.

I don't understand why you are calling OP's relative out for making an accusation. It's an accusation that the DH has admitted - so who caused the drama here?
The person who went fumbling around in private spaces, or the person who objected to the fumbling?

ChargingBuck · 28/10/2021 11:02

My DB has severe OCD and has paranoia “the way I am using it”.

Then - as the psychologist PP has already advised you @PlanDeRaccordement - your DB has OCD.
He also has paranoia.

You are mistaking proximity for causation.

Paranoia is not a symptom of OCD.
You DB also has another condition, symptomised by paranoia.

CovoidOfAllHumanity · 28/10/2021 11:03

The female relative 'describes herself as OCD' as do a lot of people when they actually mean that they like things to be orderly. OP does not say relative has diagnosed OCD.

Even if she did it would not make her unworthy of being believed when she says that her underwear drawer is messed up or things are going missing. 'Paranoia' is a not a recognised medical or psychiatric term and can mean a lot of things to a lot of people but certainly people with OCD don't have delusional beliefs.

Putting away clean laundry for ones own nuclear family = normal behaviour for a man or a woman.

Going to someone else's house and handling the underwear of any other person whatever their sex uninvited = very odd behaviour

Lockheart · 28/10/2021 11:10

It's not completely beyond the realms of possibility that he's telling the truth, although I'd agree with posters who have referenced Occam's razor - the simplest explanation is usually the true one.

Ultimately however it's one person's word against another's at this point and it wouldn't be enough for me, personally, to end a marriage and break up a family.

I'd make it clear to him that his actions were inappropriate (innocent or not), that if he finds any underwear in future he's not to go in her room to put it back but leave it where it is / put it somewhere like the laundry basket, as far as possible avoid him being left alone in the house for the relatives peace of mind, and draw a line.

ChargingBuck · 28/10/2021 11:12

You didn’t read. I said it was 100% plain wrong!

I did read.
You wrote ... 100% plain wrong. But he might have gender identity issues.

The placement of that "But" is disturbing @Lotusmonster.
It shows your belief that despite his actions being wrong, if he had gender identity issues, it's understandable. Or mitigated. Or somehow ... well, something! - or why the fuck did you bring it up?

You might as well have written
"He grabbed her breasts, which was wrong, BUT he was only exploring his masculinity, 'cos he's got ishoos ..."

FrenchieFromGrease · 28/10/2021 11:17

The only part I'm inclined to believe is the "nothing deviant" - although I suspect have a very different view from him about what constitutes deviance.
I suspect DH means "don't panic, I didn't put them on, or wank over them" - so considers himself non-deviant.
I believe this could be true. All he wanted was quick fumble & visual thrill.
But I don't agree with DH's "not deviant" stance. I think it's fucking deviant to enter someone's bedroom on the sneak, ditto open their underwear drawers, & reckon yourself still a good bloke just because you didn't jizz all over your relative's underwear.

Also ... Peeping Tom stuff like this usually escalates.
It goes hand in hand with the brazen entitlement.

@ChargingBuck has nailed it

Your husband is a creep. A true dirty mac wearing, thigh rubbing creep. He has repeatedly invaded your relatives private space to get sexual thrills out of her belongings. He feels entitled to use your relative - a real life woman he has a close relationship with - to bolster his fantasies.

This goes way beyond a passing thought and makes me wonder what his next excalation will be. He's already made the jump from fantasising something to taking action in reality.

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