Women are being neglected

[Witchywonder]

So I’m 39 weeks pregnant and sick of people dismissing the pain and horrific trauma women can experience while pregnant…or in relation to general health issues.

When else would anyone be expected to “get on with it” and walk on a cracked bone?

No one would actually expect someone having abdominal surgery to look after a new born/ other children, and continue general life…unless they’ve just had a section. I had key-hole surgery a few years ago on my stomach and I was put on bed rest for 8 weeks after, with morphine tablets.

AIBU to think in this day and age we should acknowledge how sh*t this is?

Agree! When I had a baby I felt like a nuisance. Get on with it. Close your legs next time type of attitude. It's worse when women present like this.

My exhusband, who's an oral surgeon, said he would be struck off if he treated patients the way I was treated in labour.
'You're not 4cm yet, you can't be in pain'
Well, I am actually. A fuck tonne of pain.
I don't know of any situation other than labour where they get to tell you if you're in pain or not.

It’s ironic how those of us who had a good experience aren’t allowed to say “it isn’t all bad” yet those who had a bad experience are fine to make generalised sweeping statements and assume everyone hated it or wasn’t cared for well.

@Sofiegiraffe

YANBU. Pregnancy and childbirth and the whole aftermath can be horribly traumatic. It's often dismissed and definitely not spoken about enough IMO. I bet people would talk about it more and care would be better if men carried babies! 🙄

I completely agree.

@RussianSpy101

It’s ironic how those of us who had a good experience aren’t allowed to say “it isn’t all bad” yet those who had a bad experience are fine to make generalised sweeping statements and assume everyone hated it or wasn’t cared for well.

Most people have just given their individual experience(s) though.

43 year old and give birth via emergency section 4.5 years back in Dublin, everything went "wrong" in the birth and I was knocked out. Very happy doctor came and talked to partner and I about the birth. Always remember the kindness of nurse who washed me and I official lactation nurse who helped me. She gave my partner strict instructions on making sure I had remote on right side and lots of water. I am horrified about the stories about inhumane care. Absolutely wrong on every level and we need to campaign against it

@jesusmaryjosephandtheweedonkey

You seem to extremely angry at the thought of having to look after your child after childbirth! I'm not really sure what the alternative would be

I think nature is crazy. Why put women through the trauma of childbirth when we have a small baby to look after and keep alive immediately afterwards? We should have evolved with zips.

Even women who have "easy" births have a big thing to get over.

I also don't understand why we have periods. We've evolved to control our bladders and bowels, why not our uteruses?

You are right to be cross OP but I agree not sure what the alternative would be in the absence of nature sorting her act out!

Yeah, I think the general lack of care and help in hospital after most births is shit. I had an eclamptic seizure with my first and my baby was taken to the neonatal unit. I was in ‘intensive care’ except that they couldn’t move me because the movement might set off more seizures so I had to receive it on the bed I gave birth in, complete with blood etc. I had short term memory loss so I didn’t know where my baby was, what time of day it was, why I could hear people screaming all the time. I must have been repeating the same questions because the nurses were laughing at me or getting annoyed. When I had my first shower they just expected me to go by myself after I had barely moved for days. I shuffled down there but collapsed in the shower nowhere near the alarm thing. Just had to lie on the floor until I had the strength to get myself up.

Second child, I lost a lot of blood and had other complications. Again, just told to get in the shower. Luckily, I was still in the room I’d given birth in which had a shower attached, so my husband saw me pass out and managed to get help. When they moved me to a ward they expected me to walk. I tried and collapsed again. Only then did it occur to them to get me a wheelchair. Wtf?!

My c section with number three was a piece of piss and I was out and about shopping within a few days. Minimal pain. Obviously had to be a bit careful with the lifting. I only wish I'd had sections with (at least) number two, and ideally number one, as those (natural) births ruined my vag and pelvic floor and I was in hospital for over a week afterwards with both, having had surgery to try and sort out the terrible damage.

Genuine question - for those at hospital needing help getting to the loo etc after giving birth, where was baby’s father?

Banned from the ward except for a one hour window in a 48 hour stay, in my case. Because of Covid.

I agree firmly. Part of the reason I had postnatal was because of my hellish experience in the postnatal ward when I had my eldest dd. I had an emergency section, was the last woman on the ward (my dh and mum were sent home as it was after visiting time) had a hellish night where I was just expected to get on with it. I couldn't move my legs, had a catheter in and needed to buzz each time I needed help. I was told my dd's latch was fine several times, it wasn't. She went from a dinky 5lb 10oz to 5lb in a matter of days and was admitted to scubu. I was on the recovery ward for an hour and at least got some tea and toast after fasting over 24 hours. It took 18 attempts for them to put my spinal in and several attempts before they decided to put s cannula in my arm after trying multiple sites in both hands.

Second time around was marginally better because I was first on the list for a section and my mum and dh were on the postnatal ward with me. They took care of ds completely for 10 hours whilst I was able to just sleep. I woke for painkillers. This time I was more confident to buzz for help and didn't struggle on my own. I asked them to feed my ds (bottle fed) and he was taken to the nursery so I got a few hours more solid sleep once I had painkillers. I had to ask for food after having my section and wasn't taken to recovery as my surgery took 3.5 hours. This was partly because it took 20 attempts for them to place my spinal and several failed attempts to get a cannula into me.

The third time around which was 7 weeks ago my dh was with me as much as he could be and I asked for help when needed. I still had to ask for food after having fasted so long and had to request painkillers as they weren't given routinely . I had a consultant anaesthetist put in my spinal on the first attempt, a registrar and the head of the anesthesiology department in there too. The section itself was done by a consultant. I had a thorough chat with them before the surgery and a debrief afterwards. This should be offered to all women routinely and the debrief was done the following day not when I was in a haze straight after the birth.

I come from a culture where we have 40 days confinement. It isn't the same as what gets bought out on these threads unless you actually live in an asian country. Western life isn't conducive to it, for instance my mum works so can't take off 40 days to come take care of me. She did come over to see me and her granddaughter and bought a shed ton of meals to put in the freezer which was a great help. I love my mil but I don't live with her and she didn't offer to come stay with me for 6 weeks and neither did I ask. I have older kids so would have needed yo do the school run had dh not had a better paternity leave entitlement.

There is a cultural shift towards just getting on with it as is normal in the West. What you do get in pakistani culture at least is shed loads of family members wanting to visit as soon as the baby is born. My dh's family members visited 2 weeks after baby was born and that was late for them ( previously it has been days after birth). My mil cooked but someone had to clean (me, as dh was out running errands). My stitches ended up bleeding and I got an infection that I am still dealing with now. His family members always want to come around when it is convenient for them, around dinner time and cultural expectation is I feed them, so I have to cook or dh does but it still involves me having to clean and sit with them when I would rather lie down. This is my 3rd section, my stitches opened twice and the infection hasn't yet gone away. We did ask that they come inbetween meal times as that would be easier for us, means we could sort out out own kids for bed etc but the assumption was as they all came after I was 2 weeks post partum I would be fine. I wasn't. It doesn't mean I wasn't up and taking care of all my children, I was because I had to and wanted to but I could also rest when I needed to and I couldn't do that when I had guests over.

It also doesn't help that many women will minimise others experiences. Just because one women felt fine in herself 24 hours after a section, drove herself to tesco and did a hike a few days after doesn't mean that another women is exaggerating or less than for not being able to do the same.

YANBU, there's a damaging stereotype that women can just get on with things when they're in pain and too many of us go along with it. 'Man flu' often means a husband gets to lay in bed while his wife with exactly the same illness continues on as normal. Or that periods are meant to hurt, get on with it. Even if that period causes exactly the same level of pain and illness as say a stomach bug does, women are meant to 'get on with it'. It's no surprise these attitudes carry over to pregnancy and birth issues. I've had a csection and a routine surgery that was much less traumatic on my body. Guess which one I was treated better with during my hospital stay?

"you chose to get pregnant, what did you expect?"

Well for a start I didn't expect to develop a 1:20,000 condition I'd never heard of called Acute Fatty Liver of Pregnancy, I didn't expect my baby to die and I didn't expect my family to be told to prepare for the worst as I was within a few hours of complete organ failure and death or the transplant register if I was lucky.
I was "only pregnant", I "wasn't ill". So many women only pregnant end up dead or with life changing injuries. They don't choose that.
It's like saying you chose to have a car crash because you drove to work that morning. Should car crash victims not get appropriate medical care now?
Honestly, some peoples attitudes are so disgusting they make me feel sick as if my choice for my liver and kidneys to fail was happening all over again.

I contrast my experiences to my mum. She had a pph after me in 1986. I was taken off her over night and bought back to her for feeds and whisked off again so she could sleep. The midwives took her to the loo as she couldn't walk. She was in 5 days, not rushed home until she was ready. She had one on one midwife care and they showed her how to bath me etc. Her subsequent births were in 1989 and 1992 she had tears and grazes, again was helped to the loo and given a shower by midwives without asking for help, it was offered.

She had one section and was taken in a wheel chair to see my sister who was in special care. There was no expectation for her to walk there and she didn't ask for the wheelchair. She was allowed to stay in until she was ready to go home. She was also monitored closely for postnatal depression as my sister's cleft wasn't picked up in scans. She had a debrief with the consultant after her birth where she was able to ask questions and saw a paediatrician immediately after birth who pout a plan in place for my sister's care. She was taken to recovery and fed.

I know sadly some women giving birth around the time my mum did won't have been given the same care but at least compared to my own births my mum feels the care has gone backwards. She was astounded at some of the things she saw on a postnnatal ward with me and remarked her care was much better.

@SickAndTiredAgain

I haven’t ever been in hospital for anything else, so I can’t compare how it is after childbirth to how it is after anything else. But I was surprised at how little help there was after I gave birth. I had a severe PPH after giving birth to DD and it was very early morning when I was eventually transferred up to the postnatal ward. I couldn’t walk, not due to pain, but because (I assume due to blood loss) I was visibly shaking, my legs were trembling, any time I stood up my vision went completely, my legs buckled and I collapsed back down. The request that someone help me walk to the loo was met with a response that made me feel like I was being massively unreasonable, but I don’t think I was? It was that or crawl on the floor and even then I wouldn’t have remained upright on the toilet. I wouldn’t have asked for help to the loo if I didn’t need it, it’s not like it’s a perk that I wanted to try. And then shortly after half carrying me the few metres to the loo, they informed me that breakfast was now available if I just wanted to walk down the hall to the other room to get it, much further than the distance to the loo. I think I burst into tears at that point. I didn’t expect to be waited on hand and foot at all, but I also didn’t expect patients who cannot walk to be expected to. I was made to feel like such a burden, as if someone would ask for help to the loo because they just can’t be bothered to walk themselves. But as I said, I’ve no idea if this would be the case if you were on another ward for another reason.

This was very much like my experience. The amount of blood I lost was such that it warranted a transfusion, but nobody organised it and instead discharged me without any further checks. I was anaemic for months afterwards. I had a retained placenta which required emergency manual removal, so I had loads of stitches and really awful internal bruising, but they gave me no pain relief and everyone assumed I was just a drama Queen as it was my first child and I was early 20s. But they'd forced a surgeon's HAND into my uterus via my vagina without any anaesthetic as I'm allergic to some and they decided to start without the anaesthetist. I was held down by staff and they didn't tell me why. When the anaesthetist got there, he immediately gave me a type of sedative to just keep me calm and was holding my hand saying "I'm so sorry, darling." Usually I would hate the unsolicited "darling" but it was the only soothing thing during that experience. I was transferred to postnatal, collapsed on the way to the toilet twice and told I needed better "sea legs" and discharged at 7am the following morning. Before breakfast! It was literally like a "pack your shit and leave" moment. It was only when making a complaint and having a debrief that the hospital admitted that they'd neglected me and I should have had a transfusion, a lot of pain relief and should have been in hospital on bed rest for at least a week. If i had come in with those injuries and that blood loss, I'd have been on a trauma ward. But they didn't consider my body or my emotional trauma as anything to be cared for because it was due to giving birth. They admitted they failed me. What difference did that make? They gave me better aftercare after I had my other two (unplanned) children, but the panic I experienced in both pregnancies of experiencing another manual removal without anaesthetic and being held down by medics was just shrugged off as "whatever happens, you'll have a baby at the end."

I still have nightmares about it. My child will be fifteen on their next birthday.

madame what we're saying is that someone should be taking care of the mother / patient. She shouldn't be scuttling around in pain trying to deal with anything other feeding and soothing her baby.

I hated that command to walk the length of the corridor to reach the breakfast room. Not only leaving your baby unattended but half the women were clinging to the rails trying to stay upright, balancing a tray at the same time, so it was very awkward trying to get round each other. Then the women with IV stands they had to push, how they managed to carry a tray as well I have no idea. I waited until DH came at 9am and he got my breakfast for me! He also helped lots of struggling women in the breakfast room as he thought it was barbaric women are left to make their own toast and lift heavy jugs of juice/coffee in that state. I think he carried at least 5 trays for grateful women.

Other weird stuff on the post natal ward; they woke me every 2 hours to express colostrum, which I understand, but in between I was constantly kept awake by cleaners switching all the lights on at 2am, porters bringing women back from theatre and crashing and chatting like it was daytime, which woke all the newborns up.

This time my in laws are kindly coming from abroad to support us through the post natal period. I feel far less stressed. MIL loves meal planning and cooking, and FIL gets up naturally at 5am every day, unloads the dishwasher and gets older DC’s breakfast (all without being asked). Hopefully they’ll do the walking to school and back the first week so I can focus on the baby and pottering about the house without stress.

Yanbu

When I had a stomach endoscopy i was offered full sedation and half a days rest in hospital. It's a painless, safe but uncomfortable procedure. I chose not to be sedated and it was fine and lasts all ten minutes. I was also offered complete anaesthesia to get my wisdom teeth out. This was painful afterwards but totally painless at the time.

Contrast these simple procedures with birth... which is unpredictable, potentially lethal, can last days and is exceptionally painful. Yet women are routinely shamed for wanting pain relief. Made to feel weak. Yet some grown person who is a bit scared of the dentist can get knocked out to get a tooth out. It's ridiculous.

The aftercare is pretty shocking too. We are crammed into postnatal wards with no space and lots of random men. I felt really vulnerable with all these other people's husbands around when I had my boobs out all the time. You get no sleep. No help. No privacy. And it really effects the first few days of bonding. I was in for 48 hours with my first. Fairly straightforward but I hand slept for almost 2 days. I felt ruined.
The second time was very quick and I made it to the birth centre. I had my own room and it made such a difference. I could sleep anc was discharged in 12H. Such a better experience but you only get that in my hospital if you are lucky enough to have an easy birth. If not it's the ward. Again rewarding easy births like it's something you can manifest.

I had a traumatic birth with my son. The care I received in labour and when I was on the recovery ward was amazing.

But as soon as I was moved to the other ward I was just left. I had a catheter in so I couldn't get up. I couldn't reach my baby or any of his stuff so I couldn't feed him or change him. A nurse came round at about 6 and handed him to me (but I still couldn't get up) and said she'd be back to help. I didn't see her again. It was horrible. I was totally alone. I just wanted to go home as at least I'd have my husband's help there! I refused to stay another night and I was eventually discharged in the evening.

@Youseethethingis

"you chose to get pregnant, what did you expect?"

Well for a start I didn't expect to develop a 1:20,000 condition I'd never heard of called Acute Fatty Liver of Pregnancy, I didn't expect my baby to die and I didn't expect my family to be told to prepare for the worst as I was within a few hours of complete organ failure and death or the transplant register if I was lucky.
I was "only pregnant", I "wasn't ill". So many women only pregnant end up dead or with life changing injuries. They don't choose that.
It's like saying you chose to have a car crash because you drove to work that morning. Should car crash victims not get appropriate medical care now?
Honestly, some peoples attitudes are so disgusting they make me feel sick as if my choice for my liver and kidneys to fail was happening all over again.

I'm so sorry you went through this

Ignore the devoid of empathy comments. They reflect negatively entirely on those people and not those of us with empathy and understanding for fellow mums.

"I know my husband has quite harsh view of staff he manages that are ill in pregnancy or have taken extended time off due to miscarriage as I have had 'easy' pregnancies and coped on my own after miscarriage."

Horrible horrible pig of a man. I'm so glad I don't work for him. I'm even gladder that I'm not married to him.

I agree OP. I was treated terribly my first pregnancy. I couldn't wait to get out of the hospital because it was so awful. My MIL had a week in hospital looking after her baby and being helped to recuperate in the 60s. We are going backwards.

When I had dd1, the girl in the next bed was told off for having a section. Seriously. "Why did you have one? Demanded one did you? Didn't want to try yourself?". She was 17 (I heard her say so) and I also heard her say that she'd had a failed attempt to turn her breech baby. I wish I'd spoken up now. I asked for some sort of pain relief and got shouted at. I'd had a normal birth but I'd torn and well, it hurt.

Dd2 was at a different hospital. Completely different and I felt like they cared.

RussianSpy101It’s ironic how those of us who had a good experience aren’t allowed to say “it isn’t all bad” yet those who had a bad experience are fine to make generalised sweeping statements’

No-one is saying that but there can often be a tone of ‘I was fine’ so put up and shut up on here. I had one horrific birth and one that was very easy and straightforward. If I’d had two labours like my second, I’d have no comprehension of the pain, vulnerability and fear I had with my first. The experiences were worlds apart as was my recovery.

I was unexpectedly blue lighted to hospital at 39 weeks to have an emergency c-section and so didn't have my hospital bag with me. Because I was planning a home birth and thought I was just going for a routine midwife appointment. The midwives at the hospital were awful to me, I was in shock, extremley unwell and alone and they made me feel like I was a neglectful, horrible mother because I couldn't magic up clothes/nappies/hats for my baby nor did I have bottles. Because I was breastfeeding but because I didn't have anything with me they made me feel awful. I was also the only person on the ward on my own once I was transferred out of the HDU because my partner was looking after our eldest daughter. I was in the HDU for 48 hours watching everyone come and go, attached to hundreds of wires with a tiny newborn who only narrowly escaped a NICU stay. It was scary to say the least - and that's not saying I didn't want to look after her because I did but when I could barely move and was very unwell I didn't feel safe and that shouldn't be the case.