To find DH’s view offensive?

[Peanutbutterkid08]

I was discussing with my teenage son about how misogyny was systemic in society and how white straight men have always held privilege. Ds doesn’t really agree with this, he thinks girls and women have an ‘easier time.’
I said just because NAMALT (🙄) doesn’t mean it’s enough for men to just sit back and say not my problem. In the same way I don’t believe it is enough to just not be racist - if you don’t speak up even if not racist yourself you are part of the problem.
DH said - in a sort of patronising and angry voice ‘didn’t realise you were such a feminist sweetheart.’
Then he went onto say to ds ‘they’ll miss us when we’re gone, we hold together society.’ DH is in a high level job and is actively encouraged to recruit women into senior positions which I know he doesn’t agree with. It’s because only 3% of the the senior positions in his company are held by women.
It was the way he said it. So scathing. Now he’s stormed off upstairs.

Its not nice to not have a very high opinion of men.
In the same way that its not nice to not have a very high opinion of women.
Or indeed any group.

If you're fairly new to feminism and it sounds like you are since you've taken on all the wife work and your DS also has sexist views, then the men in your life are going to kick back. You need to stay firm.
And that means, sharing all the household responsibilities with them.
Your DS is living in your home. He needs to cook and clean and show respect for women.
Make your DS watch this from Police Scotland. He need to decide whether he's that guy or not.

@Chocaholic9 thanks. I was reading back from your comment about the incels.

I do find it weird that some (presumably) men hang around these threads just waiting to jump on women’s opinions. Usually threads about leaving husbands and such.

No problem with men using MN btw just the ones doing it for the wrong reasons.

And that is her husband's fault. OK, so she clearly didn't persuade him to act otherwise but it's so often the case that a man like this will convince his wife that her contribution is less important and she learns to keep the peace and just get on with it because it's not like a baby can be left with a shitty bum and a child can't go to school in dirty clothes and so on and so on.

Women are not responsible for making the men in their lives behave like decent human beings

No, but you can't marry a sexist arse, enable his sexist behaviour for years, and then act all surprised when your teenage son displays the same behaviour as his dad.

Looks like all the butthurt incels have shown up.

OP no talks or books are going to change your DS mind at this point.

Like a PP has said, Feminism is in what you do more than what you say.

You'll have to stand up and expect your DH and DS to pull their weight around the house and for them to treat you with respect.

For the PPs that think people are hired through merit, you know that isn't true at all. Think of all the incompetent co workers and bosses you've had.

The words merit and qualified mostly come up when talking about hiring women or minorities over white men.
It implied that white men are by default, the best candidate.

I mean, I guess your DS is speaking from his own subjective experience so maybe a better way to have handled it would be instead of giving your opinion on how it is, based on your thoughts, experiences and feelings, listening to why he holds his and learning something about his experience and interpretation of such.

People are such individuals, the thought of painting whole swathes of society with one brush just because you differ in an opinion is so dangerous and divisive.

Again, why is your DH opposed to hiring senior women? You don't have to agree with his view but it's always good to listen to differing opinions.

And definitely stop waiting on them hand and foot, that's just perpetuating the very thing you dislike.

Op, your husband sounds like a twat, but how can you call yourself a feminist if you let him get away with doing nothing in the home? Sounds like you need to give him a good -metaphorical- kick up the backside.

@DillonPanthersTexas

Your house sounds fun

Are you saying that families should never discuss difficult subjects and family life should be all lighthearted fun? Should op have shut up? I just want to be clear.

@Kotatsu

When people start on the personal insults it's usually not a good sign in the context of a strong argument. But to answer your WHY question: for a whole host of reasons. And there are many more male teachers on modest salaries than there are male engineers on high salaries.

But when you (for instance) compare male primary teachers to female ones, you find that the males are paid more, and advanced in their career faster - same holds true for nurses, and pretty much any other career you care to look at.

I am a woman who did an IT degree (one of 5 women vs 100 men in my largest lectures). I'm good at my job, I'm friendly and open. I have had to be so careful throughout my career - it's not so bad now I'm in my 40s with 2 kids, but when I was in my 20s I was pursued by multiple colleagues, it was a decidedly hostile environment (once you'd made it clear you weren't interested), and meant that going out for a beer with my colleagues had whole extra layers I had to navigate. I had conversations, sometimes tearful, with other female colleagues in the toilets more than once, and similar with my line-managers when men weren't taking no for an answer.

Do you think that kind of work environment might have an effect on how women who aren't as determined as I am want to stay in IT? I'm sure it happens in other male dominated industries as well.

This

@nanbread

For those of you against positive discrimination, are you aware that a diverse and inclusive workforce has real business benefits? As in, a more productive and profitable business?

So it's in the business' interest to do so, not just some woke tickboxathon, and helps to undo a little bit of the discrimination and conditioning that's resulted in a non diverse workforce to start with.

Sorry to be picky but....

Positive discrimination is illegal. Using the term positive discrimination just gives people an excuse to proclaim a group of people have been given jobs just because they are from a particular group not because they deserve it.

What we are talking about here is affirmative action.

You don't have a high opinion of men and you somehow hold your husband responsible for what other men do, yet you're the one who got offended?

DillonPanthersTexas so looking at your other posts, you did mean that op should shut up. Thought so.

To be fair ds lives in a house where the man has never cooked a meal, changed a nappy or used the washing machine

This doesn't surprise me in the slightest, also explains your DSs views, did you really not think about the effect on your son being raised with a DH like yours?

He’s moaned before about having to actively recruit women.

I have some sympathy for the view as is smacks of tokenism. I'd hat to think I got my job because I was a woman and not because I was the best candidate for the job.

The problem word being 'actively' as it suggests that better candidates can get bypassed in order to fill quotas.

I'm a woman and have been a partner at two different City law firms. Honestly, I have never felt nor have I ever witnessed women being disadvantaged in my industry at all. If anything, it has always been a bonus to be a woman. I have seen many women (including myself) being offered partnership after they return from maternity leave.

I think you're a bit over-dramatic with your views. Sorry

It's not the topic of the conversation, it's the DH & DS reaction. Putting OP down, disrespecting her in her own home, dismissing her views and belittling her. THAT'S the 'fun' bit people are referring to

Hmm I don't think the first person mentioning "fun" meant it like that at all. They've made it clear that they consider op in the wrong for even discussing this. Called it a rant. It's always a rant when women express strong opinions.

For those of you against positive discrimination

Positive discrimination is illegal in the UK

@araiwa

He's a great dad.

Took one for the team to get his son out of that conversation

ODFOD.

@XelaM

I'm a woman and have been a partner at two different City law firms. Honestly, I have never felt nor have I ever witnessed women being disadvantaged in my industry at all. If anything, it has always been a bonus to be a woman. I have seen many women (including myself) being offered partnership after they return from maternity leave.

I think you're a bit over-dramatic with your views. Sorry

Your experience is just that. Your experience. It means as little as claiming that racism in America doesn't exist because Obama.

I have also grown up with women who did all the housework and childcare, yet my dad, uncle, grandfathers, brother are all lovely and don't hold any of the silly views portrayed on this thread.

What we are talking about here is affirmative action

What's affirmative action? More word twisting

Your DS said ‘it’s not our fault you don’t apply. It’s not our fault you swan off to have babies.’

The answer is 'I did that [x]teen years ago. I rather wish I hadn't.'

I know you wouldn't say it, but I'd be thinking it.

I think a lot of people don’t understand the term privilege because It has associations with being rich/ having an easy life.

To me privilege is a form of invisibility where an aspect of your humanity doesn’t actively penalise you.

Straight white men don’t automatically have an easy time but there’s nothing about them that is actively discriminated against.

The only fair system is meritocracy. Women should not be recruited just because they are women! It's insulting