To find DH’s view offensive?

[Peanutbutterkid08]

I was discussing with my teenage son about how misogyny was systemic in society and how white straight men have always held privilege. Ds doesn’t really agree with this, he thinks girls and women have an ‘easier time.’
I said just because NAMALT (🙄) doesn’t mean it’s enough for men to just sit back and say not my problem. In the same way I don’t believe it is enough to just not be racist - if you don’t speak up even if not racist yourself you are part of the problem.
DH said - in a sort of patronising and angry voice ‘didn’t realise you were such a feminist sweetheart.’
Then he went onto say to ds ‘they’ll miss us when we’re gone, we hold together society.’ DH is in a high level job and is actively encouraged to recruit women into senior positions which I know he doesn’t agree with. It’s because only 3% of the the senior positions in his company are held by women.
It was the way he said it. So scathing. Now he’s stormed off upstairs.

Then he went onto say to ds ‘they’ll miss us when we’re gone, we hold together society.’

Where to start with this!

Well you could start by saying that if women didn’t have to take maternity leave to look after their children, there wouldn’t even be a society. I’d honestly love to see it reversed and these men take time off to look after their child and put their careers on hold for a year. Imagine that 🤣

Also they only ‘hold society together’ as they’ve made sure they’ve held on to all the power since year dot as a PP has said. 😬😡

@Cam77

If women aren’t disadvantaged in any way why are 97% of senior positions in his company held by men? Basically the same reason why 2/3 of teachers educating our kids are women. There are many more qualified applicants of that sex than the other sex.

Nope. That doesn’t fly with me.

Why are male teachers in primary more likely to be headteachers? There is a bias and it often has nothing to do with qualifications, also think about how this translates to black women. They are the least likely to make it to senior leadership positions but more likely to hold qualifications…

@XelaM

It’s not insulting if unconscious bias has led to 95-100%of management being men.

Additionally a lack of variety in staff is really damaging for a huskiness/ organisation.

You need to take steps to rectify the prejudice.

The idea that men are being hired and promoted over women because they are simply better is a bit silly.

@XelaM

The only fair system is meritocracy. Women should not be recruited just because they are women! It's insulting

Curious then how most people in these top jobs are heterosexual white men... odd that.

Huskiness

Business

Anecdotes do not equal evidence. Look at the gender pay gap, crime statistics, everyday sexism website for actual evidence for those who say it doesn’t happen?

And a big shout out for female socialisation of not making men feel uncomfortable or challenging their views. Especially @smoko who wins that prize with the comment

“Also the way you frame it that this is fact & how it is with men - maybe use more “I feel” or “I think” or “in my experience”

Or OP could just point to all the facts?

It’s amazing to me how some people really think that with all the rights women didn’t have a century ago - that we’ve somehow solved sexism within a century and it’s just all better now and women aren’t disadvantaged anymore! Wow, the legacy of hundreds of years of oppression is just gone now! Good job team!

Your husband doesn’t like women, he resents them. He’s not alone, sadly.

@XelaM I have a few friends who work in law and it does sound like there are more opportunities for women in that industry but as it is an industry based around knowledge of legal rights etc I should blooming well hope so.

I don’t think op is being dramatic when her husbands job is literally to recruit women into positions within an industry where they are underrepresented. (Sounds like he is perfect for that job based on his views on women )

I would suggest you watch the biopic of how Ruth Bader Ginsburg made it onto the Supreme Court but unfortunately it co-stars supreme misogynist scumbag Armie Hammer so watch at your own discretion…

@Peanutbutterkid08

I gave these stats to ds and he said ‘it’s not our fault you don’t apply. It’s not our fault you swan off to have babies.’

My word. You are far more patient than me OP. Where do you start with someone harbouring that attitude? It must be so hard to live with. My sister has one of these at home. I find him unbearable & he's getting worse as he gets older - more entrenched as he perceives that men like him are 'under attack'. Tbh, he's a bit hard of thinking and has absolutely no redeeming features. When my sister asks their DS to tidy up he refuses to because "Dad doesn't do it, that's your job". She's working hard to counter that crap but it's an uphill struggle. Years of modelling on Dad's behaviour, despite what Mum says.

I'm a woman and have been a partner at two different City law firms. Honestly, I have never felt nor have I ever witnessed women being disadvantaged in my industry at all. If anything, it has always been a bonus to be a woman.

Ah, the cliched female partner line. ‘I’m a woman and I’m fine ergo discrimination doesn’t happen.’

@PickAChew

And that is her husband's fault. OK, so she clearly didn't persuade him to act otherwise but it's so often the case that a man like this will convince his wife that her contribution is less important and she learns to keep the peace and just get on with it because it's not like a baby can be left with a shitty bum and a child can't go to school in dirty clothes and so on and so on.

No, but thay doesn’t mean you do all his cooking and cleaning for him. She doesn’t mention other kids. But we do know her son isn’t a baby. And is old enough to feed himself and wash his own clothes. So why is she still doing it all. Do not absolve her from her lif choices.

@Peanutbutterkid08

I gave these stats to ds and he said ‘it’s not our fault you don’t apply. It’s not our fault you swan off to have babies.’

Sorry OP, but this is NOT on and NOT an OK thing for a teenage boy to say and so boldly!!! Dh aside, your son is growing up to be a misogynist who will treat women (potentially his future partners if he is straight) badly. You have a responsibility to address this now while he is still not yet an adult.

I'm not trying to blame you, we don't raise kids in vacuums and can't influence all their development....but please address this first (your sons attitude) before worrying about your misogynistic husband who presumably is a bit past the point of changing....your son needs you!!!

I’m concerned the son thinks women swan off to have babies, op did you do this? Quit work to be a stay at home mum and never go back and effectively become a housewife as your child grew? Is that why he thinks it? Or do you work?

@XelaM

The only fair system is meritocracy. Women should not be recruited just because they are women! It's insulting

Try reading invisible women. I think the example of the new York philharmonic orchestra is a great example of how meritocracy doesn't actually exist currently in many institutions and businesses...given how they had no women for centuries (apparently all down to merit)..until they started to do blind auditioning and suddenly had multiple female musicians. Women just suddenly became better musicians over night did they? Just one example.. the book and other similar sources should you care to research, have many more

Which end of teenage ?

I have a 20 year old who did not understand until he was 18ish and saw more real life. At 15 he would have thrown the feminazi sort of labels because he saw girls at school being as confident as boys and achieving just as many top grades etc so the playing field looked level to him.

Yes you're right, I was picking up on the phrase that had been used by other posters earlier in the thread, but thanks for pointing out.

For the PPs that think people are hired through merit, you know that isn't true at all. Think of all the incompetent co workers and bosses you've had.

Yes, it’s not just the cream that floats to the top.

@Peanutbutterkid08

To be fair ds lives in a house where the man has never cooked a meal, changed a nappy or used the washing machine.

He clearly thinks that you are happy to do all the donkey work rather than men should do 50%.

As an aside do you make your son do chores etc ?

@Sandinmyknickers sounds interesting! I will add this to my Goodreads list.

Positive discrimination is illegal in the UK

Positive action, is what I should have used in my post, but previous posters had referred to positive discrimination. I of course meant legal action taken to recruit people with underrepresented protected characteristics.

I'm a woman and have been a partner at two different City law firms. Honestly, I have never felt nor have I ever witnessed women being disadvantaged in my industry at all. If anything, it has always been a bonus to be a woman.

Black men are known to be underrepresented in law. Women generally not. Maybe speak to some of the afro-caribbean heritage men in your law firm.

Oh yeah, women and girls have a much easier time. It's easier for them to be sexually harrassed or assaulted. Easier to get killed by a partner or ex-partner. Easier to blame for even being somewhere. Easier to criticise what they think, wear, say and do. Easier to dismiss. Easier to dominate, intimidate and control. Easier to blame for "swanning off" to have the babies they presumably impregnated themselves with.

As PPs have pointed out, I think I lot of people get prickly when they are informed that they have privilege, because they assume that it implies they have led a charmed life without difficulties and that it is something of an insult to their achievements. When actually it's just about being aware that OTHER people have OTHER obstacles in their path.

He said I don’t seem to have a very high opinion of men.
Can’t really argue with that I suppose. I don’t.

Hardly surprising when you live with such a raging misogynist twat.

Why is this your life OP?

It’s grim being with this man.