To find DH’s view offensive?

[Peanutbutterkid08]

I was discussing with my teenage son about how misogyny was systemic in society and how white straight men have always held privilege. Ds doesn’t really agree with this, he thinks girls and women have an ‘easier time.’
I said just because NAMALT (🙄) doesn’t mean it’s enough for men to just sit back and say not my problem. In the same way I don’t believe it is enough to just not be racist - if you don’t speak up even if not racist yourself you are part of the problem.
DH said - in a sort of patronising and angry voice ‘didn’t realise you were such a feminist sweetheart.’
Then he went onto say to ds ‘they’ll miss us when we’re gone, we hold together society.’ DH is in a high level job and is actively encouraged to recruit women into senior positions which I know he doesn’t agree with. It’s because only 3% of the the senior positions in his company are held by women.
It was the way he said it. So scathing. Now he’s stormed off upstairs.

Is this board full of men or are women so brainwashed by society that they believe the OP’s DH and DS have a point? Or is it that the teens are on mud-term break? 🤔

Mid term😂

I hope he remembered to pick up the pile of stuff at the bottom of the stairs before his mantrum.

In all likelihood your son will grow up to be a straight white man, hopefully earning plenty of money, so I wouldn’t make out that your opinion of them is so low. You willingly married one after all!! And you dont want to give your son any reason to think his mother is just a bitter woman with a chip on her shoulder, as that will not make him respect your viewpoint.

I think you need to split the debate into categories, rather than just ranting in a general way about disadvantage and ‘checking your privilege’, as the issues women face are very diverse and can’t all be lumped under the misogyny label. Im sure he and your DH realise that domestic violence is nearly exclusively a crime against women, and in this way they are disadvantaged. But this knowledge isn’t going to persuade anyone that more women should be recruited into business. You could have separate conversations about #metoo, the porn industry, objectification of women, sexual harassment. And about the career ladder, and how the effects of parenthood are very different for mothers, compared with fathers and people without children. About how expectations for girls and women are very different from a young age, and this pre conditioning can have a huge effect on life choices, confidence, self assuredness. There are numerous issues to discuss, and then once your DS has had these types of conversations, his insight into whether there should be a quota of women recruited into big organisations might be thoughtful.

Yanbu. I have the same when I try to discuss race/racism with my white relatives. So in all the time you've known him you never thought to have these discussions at all until recently?

You sound hard work.

@Annasgirl

Is this board full of men or are women so brainwashed by society that they believe the OP’s DH and DS have a point? Or is it that the teens are on mud-term break? 🤔

Plenty of women have internalised misogyny.

@Peanutbutterkid08

To be fair ds lives in a house where the man has never cooked a meal, changed a nappy or used the washing machine.

What? Why?

Do you work op ?

what part of mens problems are worse than womans like i genuinly want to know.

that they genuinly have to work instead of damaging theyre bodies, being a slave 24.7 whther to a man or a child or both then be sexualised whether its the way you dress or the fact your breastfeeding a demon... oh the list could go on

OH and the fact your a failure if you cant or dont want to have kids.

Basically the same reason why 2/3 of teachers educating our kids are women. There are many more qualified applicants of that sex than the other sex.

And why do you think this is?

Are women born to work in childcare and as teachers? Are men born to be leaders and managers?

Or are the decisions we make heavily influenced by societal expectations and stereotypes??

@Annasgirl

Is this board full of men or are women so brainwashed by society that they believe the OP’s DH and DS have a point? Or is it that the teens are on mud-term break? 🤔

I feel like this thread has been infiltrated by incels and MRAs

Well done for talking to your son about misogyny.

Your DH does sound a bit old fashioned. Presumably if women had equal access to opportunities at the start of their careers and weren’t penalised for choosing to have children in the middle of their careers there would be plenty of women at the top of his organisation and they wouldn’t now be having to recruit to a quota. That’s assuming your husband believes women to be of equal intelligence and ability.

With regards to your son’s impression that women have it easy. Had he given any indication of why he thinks that? Maybe explain to him what it is like for women to have to protect themselves from possible rape and murder on a day to day basis and that in itself can get exhausting. (Sorry I didn’t check his age so only if it is an appropriate conversation) Or that women still do the majority of unpaid work and childcare within the household even if they work full time. Or that until recently (as recently as 15-20 years ago) women were often actively discouraged from ‘male’ sports and ‘male’ careers like science, IT, engineering. Maybe explain to him that huge crowds used to attend women’s football matches in the early 20th century until 1921 when the FA banned women playing at their grounds. Or how the majority of women couldn’t vote until 1928. That a woman couldn’t open a bank account in her own name until 1975.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/money/us-money-blog/2014/aug/11/women-rights-money-timeline-history

Here is an interesting article on women’s financial rights you could read together. Turns out it was legal to refuse to serve a woman in a pub until 1982!!!

It’s a crazy old world.

@Peanutbutterkid08

To be fair ds lives in a house where the man has never cooked a meal, changed a nappy or used the washing machine.

And who facilitated this sorry state of affairs?

@Peanutbutterkid08

To be fair ds lives in a house where the man has never cooked a meal, changed a nappy or used the washing machine.

Yes that explains a lot. What a shame.

Useful for the rest of us with younger DC to see it in action though - take note, mothers whose partners do not pull their weight.

For those of you against positive discrimination, are you aware that a diverse and inclusive workforce has real business benefits? As in, a more productive and profitable business?

So it's in the business' interest to do so, not just some woke tickboxathon, and helps to undo a little bit of the discrimination and conditioning that's resulted in a non diverse workforce to start with.

Let him sulk. My father used to do the same. Luckily DP doesn’t. Probably because I’ve warned him if he does it I won’t pander to it.

@user1493494961

You sound hard work.

You couldn’t even be bothered to think of a username so I’m assuming your under a bridge somewhere.

no wonder they both have sexist views then.

Yep, blame OP for her husband's misogyny. 🙄

@Tilltheend99 - I had the same thought but couldn't articulate it as well you did!

Stop doing their washing and cooking from now on. If they are going to change their minds, then they need to start being big boys and looking after themselves. They need to realise that just because you are female doesn't mean you are a maid, or a servant, or a cook. I understand if your son is too young to do it all, but he needs to at least see his dad cook him dinner and do his own washing, and he needs to be able to use a washing machine and cook simple meals himself.

When people start on the personal insults it's usually not a good sign in the context of a strong argument. But to answer your WHY question: for a whole host of reasons. And there are many more male teachers on modest salaries than there are male engineers on high salaries.

But when you (for instance) compare male primary teachers to female ones, you find that the males are paid more, and advanced in their career faster - same holds true for nurses, and pretty much any other career you care to look at.

I am a woman who did an IT degree (one of 5 women vs 100 men in my largest lectures). I'm good at my job, I'm friendly and open. I have had to be so careful throughout my career - it's not so bad now I'm in my 40s with 2 kids, but when I was in my 20s I was pursued by multiple colleagues, it was a decidedly hostile environment (once you'd made it clear you weren't interested), and meant that going out for a beer with my colleagues had whole extra layers I had to navigate. I had conversations, sometimes tearful, with other female colleagues in the toilets more than once, and similar with my line-managers when men weren't taking no for an answer.

Do you think that kind of work environment might have an effect on how women who aren't as determined as I am want to stay in IT? I'm sure it happens in other male dominated industries as well.

@PickAChew

no wonder they both have sexist views then.

Yep, blame OP for her husband's misogyny. 🙄

Of course it's not OP's fault he holds those beliefs to start with, but she didn't have to stay with him for all these years and facilitate his behaviour.

It's not surprising her son thinks the way he does when OP admits her husband has never changed a nappy, cooked a meal or emptied the washing machine.

And who facilitated this sorry state of affairs?

Please don't blame Peanutbutterkid08. Women are not responsible for making the men in their lives behave like decent human beings. Sometimes, women get so tired and fed up with fighting that it's easier just to give in and do it all when it becomes apparent that things will never change. Yes, we might ask "why did you stay?", but we all know that these questions aren't straightforward especially when there are children involved, you become more dependent on your partner and you increasingly lose chunks of yourself as you struggle with the day-to-day shit without support.

@Goldbar

And who facilitated this sorry state of affairs?

Please don't blame Peanutbutterkid08. Women are not responsible for making the men in their lives behave like decent human beings. Sometimes, women get so tired and fed up with fighting that it's easier just to give in and do it all when it becomes apparent that things will never change. Yes, we might ask "why did you stay?", but we all know that these questions aren't straightforward especially when there are children involved, you become more dependent on your partner and you increasingly lose chunks of yourself as you struggle with the day-to-day shit without support.

Hmmm. I don’t know, I don’t understand why she’s doing all the cooking and cleaning for them. But I would agree it’s facilitating or enabling this sexist bullshit.