To think only the computer literate can now go on a foreign holiday

[rookiemere]

We're just back from Tenerife and had a wonderful time, but oh my goodness the online forms to fill in were not easy for either Spain or UK, nor was the Randox registration for our PCR tests on return ( in Scotland).

I consider myself to be reasonably computer literate, but I was very grateful for some prompts I found on a Facebook help group. It took me an hour for each passenger locator for, and another hour roughly for three PCR tests ( plus an additional half hour to drive to a drop box as apparently they don't accept Royal Mail boxes anymore).

I get why the documentation is needed, so I'm not against that per se, but the fact it must be done on a device means that some people may not have that and are now forced to buy a smart phone which seems unfair.

You also need to be pretty literate to interpret the questions, so again could be tricky for some.

So my AIBU is, is it right that the form can only be completed online ?

Computers are not exactly new. Are you complaining about the forms or that they are online? The pandemic has nothing to do with computers. You’d still need to fill in the forms even if they were not computerized, only it would take longer. How would that be a better alternative?

My Mother is 83. She does not have a computer. She has a mobile phone that she reluctantly navigates. However, what she does have, is a slightly terrorised travel agent.

@sst1234 I guess the point I'm trying to make - probably badly - is that the way the system is designed assumes quite a high level of ability around completing online forms, and the assumption that everyone has an online device that they bring with them on holiday.

We had to help our friends complete the UK plf on the laptop they'd brought with them and as neither of them have computer based jobs, they really struggled. I'd imagine many elderly people would have great difficulty navigating what is required.

I'd imagine many elderly people would have great difficulty navigating what is required.

Comments like this are so patronising. Why the assumption that elderly people can’t use the internet. It’s been around 20 odd years.

@LittleBearPad

I'd imagine many elderly people would have great difficulty navigating what is required.

Comments like this are so patronising. Why the assumption that elderly people can’t use the internet. It’s been around 20 odd years.

Indeed. The 83 year old mum upthread could have been downloading her favourite Vera Lynn songs onto her MP3 player when she was still in her 50s

I’m going away next week and I’m finding all the forms and tests overwhelming.
I went to a gig last night , in Wales where we have to have Covid passports 🙄. Poor young guy didn’t have a smart phone and got turned away. Felt so sorry for him. He had his vaccinations card but that wasn’t good enough apparently. What difference does it make?

She really wasn't! The point I'm trying to make, is that there are ways to fill the gaps.

@LittleBearPad I don't mean to be patronising to anyone, I know it's a bad choice of words. The internet may have been around for 20 years, but not everyone has smart phones or i-pads, and really you pretty much have to have one of those now to go abroad.

I agree, OP. There is an underlying assumption that all passengers are capable of negotiating an ever increasing number of ever more complex systems. I feel there is an accessibility problem for some, especially older passengers.

And before any outraged octogenarians rush to tell me how easy they find the current processes, I would ask you to honestly consider whether this applies to all your peers.

People need to get with the program and just become computer illiterate (people who are fully compos mentis, obviously). I have very little time for people who say "oh I just don't do tech", and i refuse to go out of my way to help or accommodate them. Not sorry.

I think travel agents are going to get more business now due to this. More so independent types who tailor make your holiday and handle all of this sort of stuff for you, rather than the high street type (do they even still exist?)

I’m very computer literate and haven’t booked a holiday any other way than on line for about 10 years, but I was considering using an agent if we book for next year so I don’t have to deal with the visa/Covid red tape myself.

@TheYearOfSmallThings - thank you, you said what I meant to so much better.
I fill in pointless online forms on a daily basis as part of my job and I found the forms perplexing. I just decided that I'd fill it in to the best of my abilities so I could get a QR code and then also bring all my back up documents just in case I'd got something wrong.

Unfortunately I don't think the UK plf - which is much harder to complete than the Spanish version - can be outsourced to travel agents, as it can only be completed within 48 hrs before returning to UK.

I can maybe buy into people in their 80s possibly not being computer literate, but everyone below that, including people in their 70s have used computers actively for a long time now.

Let’s not forget those who have learning disabilities or other impairments that McNuggets websites are not her addressing

*mcnuggets = many

I still think there's a difference between using computers actively and filling in the plf forms. Probably due to being drawn up in a hurry, they are extremely difficult to interpret and sometimes reject information for non explained reasons.

I agree with you in part. I'm not sure why it took you so long to complete the forms, they're not that difficult or long, but I couldn't see any way round doing the return one on a smartphone or similar device, so that's obviously an issue if you don't have one of those.

I do agree with you OP. The pandemic has highlighted the issue of computer literacy. My local library had a big drive of getting devices for the elderly and providing assistance for many in terms of using it.

We’re moving to a digital world, sure. However, there should certainly be more support offered to those who need it

I can maybe buy into people in their 80s possibly not being computer literate, but everyone below that, including people in their 70s have used computers actively for a long time now.

That's not true of my 60 year old Aunt. She's really only started to use computers in the last year or two at work. Her jobs before that didn't really require it or someone in another role took care of it. It isn't true of a lot of other people I've encountered too.

@BarbaraofSeville the return one may have taken so long because I decided it was easier to complete DHs myself as well, rather than listening to him moaning whilst completing.
Most of the time was taken with trying to take and upload photos of the vaccine - I'm in Scotland so it may be easier in England.

If you want to argue that the forms are not clear or well designed, you will get absolute agreement from me. I haven’t even seen them and I have no doubt it is true. These things are often rushed and not properly evaluated for user accessibility.

That is an entirely different issue that general computer literacy and internet access.

It's not patronising. The digital skills gap is huge and older people are seriously disadvantaged by online-only access to basic services. This doesn't mean that all older people lack basic digital skills. (After all, older people invented the internet...) But it does mean that statistically they are more likely to struggle. Around 32% of UK citizens over the age of 55 lack basic digital skills compared to 8% of those under 24.

It's not just older people -- there are many groups of people in society, and in Europe, who do not yet have the basic digital skills needed to navigate the internet effectively. In Romania and Bulgaria, for example, around 45% of young people lack these skills. It's a huge barrier to inclusion and should be taken seriously.

We are in Portugal, I think all the paperwork combined took us an hour., PLFs for 5, tests for teens, Covid pass for me and DH.
It was a pain but totally worth it

OK, it was very easy in England. You had to apply for a vaccine proof from the NHS which was sent in digital form, so all you had to do was upload the form to the PLF application.

Maybe if your DH struggles with this sort of thing, he needs to practice more? People don't get computer literate by leaving all the boring admin to their DWs.

I agree with you. My dad couldn't do this as he now does not have the motor skills to fill out forms online.
It as you say also assumes a level of functional literacy that a surprising number of people do not have.