To think only the computer literate can now go on a foreign holiday

[rookiemere]

We're just back from Tenerife and had a wonderful time, but oh my goodness the online forms to fill in were not easy for either Spain or UK, nor was the Randox registration for our PCR tests on return ( in Scotland).

I consider myself to be reasonably computer literate, but I was very grateful for some prompts I found on a Facebook help group. It took me an hour for each passenger locator for, and another hour roughly for three PCR tests ( plus an additional half hour to drive to a drop box as apparently they don't accept Royal Mail boxes anymore).

I get why the documentation is needed, so I'm not against that per se, but the fact it must be done on a device means that some people may not have that and are now forced to buy a smart phone which seems unfair.

You also need to be pretty literate to interpret the questions, so again could be tricky for some.

So my AIBU is, is it right that the form can only be completed online ?

I am in lreland so may be different. Just back from holidays. I hate forms and am a total procrastinator but l found them fine. I had to do dhs as well as he gets in a total flap. I printed everything out as find that so much easier at the airport but on way out and way back was not asked for anything so it was all a wasted effort. Signs everywhere saying have them ready but no one looked at them.
It is a bit of a pain but the thought of it is worse than the reality.
Saying that if dh was travelling alone, even though he is quite computer literate he would get in a flap. I have decided to work hard not to get left behind so as soon as new regulations come l strive to master them straight away. Keeps the brain active.

@DriftingBlue

I can maybe buy into people in their 80s possibly not being computer literate, but everyone below that, including people in their 70s have used computers actively for a long time now.

That isnt true. Anyone in a physical practical job like my dad did not use any computers at all at work. He attended a course and learned how to do basic things, but now does not have the fine motor skills to do something complex like a form. He has one of those large button landline phones. There are a lot of assumptions being made on this thread.

@LittleBearPad

I'd imagine many elderly people would have great difficulty navigating what is required.

Comments like this are so patronising. Why the assumption that elderly people can’t use the internet. It’s been around 20 odd years.

When my mother died in her 80s, it was a real loss to at least two of her friends of similar age, because she had been doing all the online shopping for all of them. I was amazed.

I agree with you OP. Filling in the forms is not the same as doing your online shop - and there is always the worry that you haven't done everything quite right . And the passenger locator form for the UK needs to be done 48 hours before returning so you need to either have a smart phone or tablet with you and either a good signal or WiFi connection . And for those who may struggle you wouldn't have the option of having a friend or family member to help . Perhaps it's something that holiday reps can support with if you are on a package ? I don't know.

@OverByYer I know you can get the Covid passes for travel as a PDF to your eMail so you can print so maybe that counts for your vaccine pass for events . Also do they accept a negative test? That's what they were talking as an alternative if they bring them in in England so I don't know if it's the same for Wales?

@junebirthdaygirl where did you go to? We had to show ours at departure airport before we were allowed to fly and also when we arrived in Spain .

@HikingforScenery

*mcnuggets = many

How an earth did your phone correct many to mcnuggets? 😂

My 80 year old mother couldn’t fill in a form online as she doesn’t have a computer. Or indeed a mobile phone. So it may be a stereotype which is offensive to some and inaccurate to others but it’s true of her. She’s fab incidentally. Courageous, clever and funny. Just not into IT. Likes to speak to a human being.

Filling in forms online is a pretty basic life skill these days, and nothing to do with being "computer literate". Computers have been around for 40 years and pretty mainstream in the workplace for 30 years or so.

Say, 20 years ago, filling in a form on a computer would have required some degree of "computer literacy", especially in the days before windows (or other image based interfaces) where there were usually menus to navigate. (Not to mention the ability to load up programs in the first place which could be difficult) But, with the modern apps, which are usually easy to download via an app store or text/email link, they're pretty "noddy" really with simple guiding questions. If you can read, you can download and use an app.

As for people who don't want/don't like smart phones/computers, etc., I've not much sympathy to be honest. As I say, computers have been mainstream for decades. I can just about someone in, say, their 90's who would probably have been retired by the time computers came out, but anyone, say in their 60s, 70s and 80s would have been in working age with the rollout of computers and had ample opportunity to use them. It's been pretty obvious for a decade or two that smart phone apps and computers would be "the future".

Having said all that, there is help available for those who can't cope with apps etc - as someone said above, travel agents can help - after all, someone who doesn't use apps/computers will be using a travel agent to book their holiday, so can ask their travel agent to help with whatever needs to be done online.

It's not just older people. I'm in my late 40's Went to a restaurant (First time in a long long time) and was told to download the QR code so i could order.

My phone doesn't support QR codes. The staff didn't know how to serve me. Utter joke.

@julieca

I agree with you. My dad couldn't do this as he now does not have the motor skills to fill out forms online. It as you say also assumes a level of functional literacy that a surprising number of people do not have.

If he has impaired motor skills, would he be able to fill out paper forms in pen and ink? I'd have thought that using a computer/app would have been easier than writing for someone with impaired motor skills.

I’m computer literate but not a “native” and I’m going away next week- I’m finding it stressful because there’s a lot to fill out and a lot of new processes - well all new processes generally make me anxious

Trip Advisor travel forums are your friend

@Badbadbunny I worked in public sector 25 years ago and did not have a PC. There was a secretary with a computer who typed up our letters.

40 years ago you are talking about zx spectrums. Most people had never used a computer. Its only in the last 20 years they have become common.

I can maybe buy into people in their 80s possibly not being computer literate, but everyone below that, including people in their 70s have used computers actively for a long time now

Shocking generalisation. I am almost 50 and computer literate & better than most as 90% of my working life has involved computers in one way or another. My DH is 56. He can just about use FB and email - he struggles with anything else so I do it all.

I have 40 colleagues at work. 10 of them work in an area that does not need computer use. All 10 went to their union when HR declared that payslips would only be online from now on…all 10 have payslips printed and posted to them monthly.

Another 5 colleagues tried to do the same but their appts have computer use as a ‘reasonable expectation’ so HR were able use that against them. Every single month I have to set them up on PCs and help them out with online training, accessing their payslips, replying to sodding emails etc.

All of my colleagues are under 60. Most of the younger ones have been working in the same ‘type’ of job since leaving school and are computer literate. Most of the older ones have been employed here for 15-20 years and it’s only in the last 5-8 years that they have been expected to be able to use a computer/the internet.

@Badbadbunny he can still write. The level of fine motor skills needed for online forms is pretty high.

but anyone, say in their 60s, 70s and 80s would have been in working age with the rollout of computers and had ample opportunity to use them.

Wrong. Plenty of people have physical jobs, didn't work or anything requiring computers was taken care of by someone else in another role.

I used to work for the Citizen's Advice Bureau.(Not so long ago either) It's a very real and overlooked problem for a lot of our clients.

@CoastalWave

It's not just older people. I'm in my late 40's Went to a restaurant (First time in a long long time) and was told to download the QR code so i could order.

My phone doesn't support QR codes. The staff didn't know how to serve me. Utter joke.

Yes my DP had to update his phone just for this reason. He hardly uses his phone, so it was old. I had never used QR codes till last year so had to figure it out.

@rookiemere

We're just back from Tenerife and had a wonderful time, but oh my goodness the online forms to fill in were not easy for either Spain or UK, nor was the Randox registration for our PCR tests on return ( in Scotland).

I consider myself to be reasonably computer literate, but I was very grateful for some prompts I found on a Facebook help group. It took me an hour for each passenger locator for, and another hour roughly for three PCR tests ( plus an additional half hour to drive to a drop box as apparently they don't accept Royal Mail boxes anymore).

I get why the documentation is needed, so I'm not against that per se, but the fact it must be done on a device means that some people may not have that and are now forced to buy a smart phone which seems unfair.

You also need to be pretty literate to interpret the questions, so again could be tricky for some.

So my AIBU is, is it right that the form can only be completed online ?

There is an easy solution, that's for essential travel only and if people want to holiday, then we only need to consider our own attractions etc

People need to get with the program and just become computer illiterate

Oh, the irony

There are lots and lots of people who cannot fill in forms online, for all kinds of reasons. It's simply not good enough to write off huge sections of society in this way. It's not about sympathy! We all need to be able to participate in society. Some reasons someone might not be able to fill in a form:

No internet - 7% of households in the UK are not online at all
No device or device too old to load/process form -- stats too complex here but some chunk of people are on devices that are too old to properly interact with most pages
No vision or low vision and the form isn't written correctly so cannot be used with a screenreader -- 1.7 million people live with sight loss in England
Poor literacy -- the average reading age of a UK adult is nine years old
Learning disability -- this is 1.2 MILLION people
Digital skills as I explained earlier
Fine motor control -- despite tap target guidelines and rest space design patterns, most forms are still unusable for many people with tremor

I could go on all day... These people, millions of people, are all part of our society and deserve to be considered.

Yes this has become the equivalent of the old stairs to get into a shop or council office.

OK, it was very easy in England. You had to apply for a vaccine proof from the NHS which was sent in digital form, so all you had to do was upload the form to the PLF application.

Except we couldn’t, despite being two mid 30yo who have been using the internet since we were 10. There was no logical way to upload our vax certificate on a phone. I have a senior role in the City, a few degrees etc and I still wasn’t completely certain I’d done the form correctly. I was very grateful that BA has a pre-authorisation system that prevent you checking in without the correct paperwork.

When we departed, on the earlier Easyjet flight a well spoken and clearly wealthy woman in her 50s was sobbing away as she’d incorrectly interpreted they only needed one PLF for the family to enter the UK. Her husband couldn’t get his PLF sorted in time to board & missed the flight.

It is a clunky and confusing system.

My cousin is 52 and is barely computer literate. He can manage an email but most other things are beyond him. He got made redundant two years ago and hadn’t been able to get a job since as his skill set is so outdated. The digital gap is much much wider than many here would assume.

@EishetChayil

Well, don't you sound nice. Also, working on your own basic skills might be a priority, just saying.🙄

This is what travel agents are for. And reps in resort. On our last holiday the rep seemed to spend most of his time helping people with forms and tests.