To think only the computer literate can now go on a foreign holiday

[rookiemere]

We're just back from Tenerife and had a wonderful time, but oh my goodness the online forms to fill in were not easy for either Spain or UK, nor was the Randox registration for our PCR tests on return ( in Scotland).

I consider myself to be reasonably computer literate, but I was very grateful for some prompts I found on a Facebook help group. It took me an hour for each passenger locator for, and another hour roughly for three PCR tests ( plus an additional half hour to drive to a drop box as apparently they don't accept Royal Mail boxes anymore).

I get why the documentation is needed, so I'm not against that per se, but the fact it must be done on a device means that some people may not have that and are now forced to buy a smart phone which seems unfair.

You also need to be pretty literate to interpret the questions, so again could be tricky for some.

So my AIBU is, is it right that the form can only be completed online ?

I keep reading about people being turned away from flights for not meeting rules. Enough to know that some people are struggling to understand and follow through with them.

@julieca

I keep reading about people being turned away from flights for not meeting rules. Enough to know that some people are struggling to understand and follow through with them.

But is that due to the app or do some people struggle with rules/paperwork anyway? I'm sure that people used to be turned away back in the times of pen and paper before apps. Certainly if you try to fly to the US without the ESTA you'd be turned away at the departure gate!

I think the apps make it more difficult although I do agree with what you are saying. But also taking your example, applying for an ESTA is a piece of piss. Whereas there are lots of people on this thread who are computer literate saying they struggled with the apps.

@shineynewapple21 > 'That's awful @itsnotmeitsu was it proved? Was he prosecuted? Did her family get any of the money back ?

The bank agreed that the transactions to this person should never have taken place. There were five in all, done over the phone. So the fact that my sister never owned a computer or a smartphone didn't come into that. However, the neighbour had her using his laptop to place online orders and I know he stole much more money than was taken by the bank transfers, but that can't be proven. My sister had no idea about passwords or anything like that. She had some mental health problems and was on benefits - she didn't have the resources or the ability to be computer literate.

The bank immediately repaid the money into a probate account, so her daughter got that part of the inheritance back. However, the police have now dropped the case because they say the bank won't hand over the recordings of the phone calls about transferring the money, and without that there's no evidence. So the bank have paid out £45,000 and he's got away with £45,000 of someone else's money, because they won't hand over the evidence required to take it to court. Thanks for asking about it x. I suppose my point in mentioning this was that no, not everybody is able to be computer-literate because they're dinosaurs, stubborn, etc, and this is still very raw to me. It may be a massive convenience for those who currently can't do it, to get computer-savvy. But this option isn't open to everyone; it certainly wasn't for my sister. Not that she'd had a holiday since the 80s, so no technology involved then.

How many people who have never been onboard with technology (and there's no comparison between using computers today and using them in the 80s and 90s) and now find they have to use this technology are putting themselves in a vulnerable position? Even the most technology-savvy are able to be scammed. God knows how many criminals and how much money is being stolen due to this push for everything to be done via a machine rather than human beings having personal interaction.

Yes that is awful.
I admit I don't do online banking. I did when younger, but I don't think my eyesight is good enough now to safely do it.

And I suspect because it is mainly old and vulnerable people transferring money over the phone, when you phone up they really quiz you now about where you got the account details, have you met this person and are you being coerced.

So having observed other people at airports around Europe over the summer could I give a couple of examples of what I saw.

People trying to blag it. The women in front of me with her two kids had done the NHS tests before her flight. She clearly thought they would let her through anyway. She said her friend had said it was fine....She started kicking off and had her poor kids with her as well. Eventually she claimed she was going to a funeral.

People filling in PLF's at the airport having not even thought about ordering a Day 2 test. Very luckily there was a TUI rep who pulled them to one side but they were shouting at her and I felt really sorry for her.

Its a nightmare. Some countries require LFT test, some PCR, some need to supervised, some not.

My only real tip is when you have booked your holiday just check, put a note up on Trip Advisor Forum under the relevant destination with any questions. Although I wouldnt take what they said as gospel its a start and its amazing how many people still think you can use a NHS test.

Why would the 400 odd private providers be in business if you could do that!!

Print out whatever you can in advance. Dont leave it until the last minute.

I agree with a PP - try a simple App. Get used to it and whoever said 'the more I practise the better I get'.

I understand its really complex sometimes but you at lest have to try and get used to the new world.

The PLF is tedious. It repeats and tries to be one form for every eventuality. I never got to upload my vaccine passport. I think there might be a bug but it said that you could always show seperately so I did.

I have been trying to sort out my vaccine passport today as it looks like I will have to use it at some point. The photo ID is a pain to get it to accept it.

That's another confusing thing to get Julie!

Once you have it its done for life though and I find the NHS App most useful. To order a copy of my vaccine passport (remembering of course they only last for 1 month from request).

Have others heard that its always best to print out because the NHS App has gone down a couple of times and if you dont have access to it online you wont be allowed to board a flight.

I also use the NHS App for ordering repeat prescriptions. Much better than the old way which involved either sending an email or leaving a message on the surgery answerphone. Who on earth though leaving a message on an answerphone by someone who gets mixed up with what medication they are on is a good idea.

I dont like using the app and wont use it to request medication as it means giving away data to private companies - I think?

We print everything still.🤷

It's too risky to have your phone or app fail at the critical moment.
Honestly I think I'll invest in my garden and stay home in future.😂

So yes I do sympathize with people.

Printing is the correct way of doing it. You could lose your phone, the app is down, you could forget your password and be locked out for xxx hours.

If someone wants to see that I am using HRT medicine then so be it. It must be riveting for them

@Franklin12 I printed all the stuff from home, but couldn't be bothered navigating the hotels rudimentary printer ( plus I think it was a Euro a page). I did however download the UK plfs and emailed them to DH as well . Between us we have 4 devices so I figured at least one would be working.

In Scotland you can request a letter with your QR codes on it from the vaccine, so I also had those.

@julieca

I dont like using the app and wont use it to request medication as it means giving away data to private companies - I think?

Do you realise most pharmacies are private companies and they'll obviously have your prescription history??

@KrispyKale

It's too risky to have your phone or app fail at the critical moment. Honestly I think I'll invest in my garden and stay home in future.😂

Is it any different to doing paperwork and losing that?

I work in tech and the amount of tech knowledge needed to complete forms is miniscule in the grand scheme of things. Yes it takes some practice and some getting used to, but it is not difficult (unless ofcourse you have differing needs as a lot of sites are not set up correctly for accessibility - but that is another issue).

Libraries have computers that people can use and most people who have a phone, have a smart phone (yes one or two are gonna come back here and say they don't, but the numbers are small), there have been free courses available at Libraries, schools, the job centre and other agencies for years to help people brush up on their IT skills. Nowadays if you choose not to learn how to navigate the Internet successfully then you are putting yourself at a disadvantage.

You don't need to wait 3-5 days for a go/NHS to send you a digital or paper copy of your vaccine passport.
You can get it yourself on the nhs app / as a PDF which you can then download and print, or upload to the digital forms. It's very simple to do if you use the NHS app - will be with you within a few short minutes rather than waiting for days.

@Badbadbunny my pharmacy does not sell details of my medication to private companies.
And I have never lost paperwork. You have control over that. You don't have control over an app not working.

Forget my little bundle of paperwork when going on holiday?! Never!

@juice92 Free IT courses are either for people in work or looking for employment. Or the ones aimed at retired people are basic. Basically how to email and how to skype. And libraries have been closed in lots of places.

There are also courses aimed at older people. My mum did an "introduction to using a smartphone " course just before the first lockdown.

Hahaha. I think some people on this thread need to meet my mother. She has attended a library course on emailing and using the Internet pre lockdown. She still couldn’t do anything at the end of it. All of the family have spent hours and hours trying to help her with her phone. She still can’t answer a call. She can use WhatsApp though and miraculously she can do zoom on a tablet. She still can’t use email or use the Internet though.

@MagpieMary where I used to work ran courses for elderly people. I saw the tutor spend ages trying to teach one man how to use a mouse. I am not sure he was ever able to.