To wonder if Mumsnet is full of men who are a waste of space

[DownToTheSeaAgain]

...or most men are a waste of space so Mumsnet just reflects the real world.

These good men who don't feature on Mumsnet should be doing more than just their 'share' of the chores. That is a given. They should be fighting for and promoting equality in every sphere of life.

That’s a bit of a bonkersly high bar. I wouldn’t expect anyone to do more than their fair share of anything.

@PurpleDaisies

These good men who don't feature on Mumsnet should be doing more than just their 'share' of the chores. That is a given. They should be fighting for and promoting equality in every sphere of life.

That’s a bit of a bonkersly high bar. I wouldn’t expect anyone to do more than their fair share of anything.

But is it? We live in a totally unequal world - surely the 'good' ones should be advocating for a change not just enjoying the status quo

It really depends how you define ‘waste of space’ — if it depends on housework and cooking/cleaning/laundry then my H is indeed a waste of space in his late 50s- I cant ever remember him doing laundry of any kind, rarely cooks and I can’t remember him cleaning anything either. He is however a high earner, not mean, works long hours self employed and likes kids and animals etc and when our son who is in his 20s now was Little was good with childcare and taking him out etc , so I think it really depends on where you draw the line at ‘waste of space’

@DownToTheSeaAgain

I think the posters who point at lack of equality being endemic (home and workplace) make good points. These good men who don't feature on Mumsnet should be doing more than just their 'share' of the chores. That is a given. They should be fighting for and promoting equality in every sphere of life.

I started this thread alarmed at the number of awful, awful men featured on Mumsnet. I'm now realising that this goes much, much deeper. And AMALT because a microscopic number of them are willing to make big changes and/or sacrifices to make the patriarchy ....less patriarchal.

This!

But is it? We live in a totally unequal world - surely the 'good' ones should be advocating for a change not just enjoying the status quo

Why should dh do more than his fair share of the housework? You’ve ignored that.

@DownToTheSeaAgain

I think the posters who point at lack of equality being endemic (home and workplace) make good points. These good men who don't feature on Mumsnet should be doing more than just their 'share' of the chores. That is a given. They should be fighting for and promoting equality in every sphere of life.

I started this thread alarmed at the number of awful, awful men featured on Mumsnet. I'm now realising that this goes much, much deeper. And AMALT because a microscopic number of them are willing to make big changes and/or sacrifices to make the patriarchy ....less patriarchal.

I really wouldn't take everything you read on here as the absolute truth everything is magnified in here I'm the parent for example of a child with autism,if you look at Mumsnet I might be inclined to think every second poster has a child with autism,this isn't true of course it's just that it's on my radar so I'm immediately drawn to the autism threads

And yes, good men should be advocating for change to make society more equal. Setting that bar at “fighting for and promoting equality in every sphere of life” is a pretty high bar. On a day to day basis, what does that actually look like? I don’t think I’m doing that as a woman.

@PurpleDaisies

But is it? We live in a totally unequal world - surely the 'good' ones should be advocating for a change not just enjoying the status quo

Why should dh do more than his fair share of the housework? You’ve ignored that.

I didn't say he should do more housework. I said he should be supporting a better world where doing your 'fair share' should be a given not a defining factor in whether you are good or not. 'Good' is advocating for a world when women aren't the default doers of housework/ childcare/ care of family members just because they have wombs and have been doing it for the last millennia (...because of the patriarchy)

@tarasmalatarocks

It really depends how you define ‘waste of space’ — if it depends on housework and cooking/cleaning/laundry then my H is indeed a waste of space in his late 50s- I cant ever remember him doing laundry of any kind, rarely cooks and I can’t remember him cleaning anything either. He is however a high earner, not mean, works long hours self employed and likes kids and animals etc and when our son who is in his 20s now was Little was good with childcare and taking him out etc , so I think it really depends on where you draw the line at ‘waste of space’

Pretty much this.

Everyone has different definitions.

Like if man watches porn or goes to strip clubs, wants violent sex, drinks/drugs, is or has misogynistic friends, then doing laundry or dishes 50/50 really isin’t going to mend all that.

You think most men are a waste of space or most men on mumsnet are a waste of space?

You never know what someone's sex/ gender is unless they declare. So yeah yabu. And also yabu for making a sweeping statement.

As usual no response to pointing out that loads of women don't work full time, or even at all.

I remove the thread on here where OP was saying women who don't work are lucky. Loads of posters replied to say how they loved being able to focus on their hobbies, meet friends, have spa days, and were pretty enamoured with their hard working husbands.

That thread had come up several times and some of the posters on this thread were on it! But it always gets downplayed.

You directly said men should do than their fair share of the chores.

'Remember' not 'remove'

@LadyTiredWinterBottom2

You think most men are a waste of space or most men on mumsnet are a waste of space?

You never know what someone's sex/ gender is unless they declare. So yeah yabu. And also yabu for making a sweeping statement.

Well to be fair to me it is pretty difficult to make a singleminded statement that precipitates vigorous debate in one line and that does not dilute the point.

But yes - happy to BU now I have come to my own realisation that AMBU.

I didn't say he should do more housework.

You can see how this looked like you said exactly that:
These good men who don't feature on Mumsnet should be doing more than just their 'share' of the chores.

@AICM

You directly said men should do than their fair share of the chores.

That's quoting only half the statement. I said the half of chores should be a given. They should be doing other 'crush the patriarchy stuff' to be truly good.

As evinced by the image below (I hope)

I've read your post again. I misread it. Sorry.

Good' is advocating for a world when women aren't the default doers of housework/childcare/ care of family members just because they have wombs and have been doing it for the last millennia (...because of the patriarchy)

Dh’s main opportunity to do that is by doing his fair share of the chores. He is currently cooking dinner while I am sitting on the sofa.

@AICM

I've read your post again. I misread it. Sorry.

Apology accepted. When the patriarchy is gone we're all going to be much less aggressive and confrontational with each other generally. I'm convinced of it.

Why should men be carrying out feminist objectives when the vast majority of women aren't even feminists?

@KayKayWat

Why should men be carrying out feminist objectives when the vast majority of women aren't even feminists?

Because they don't need to fight for the basics of life so it is their moral duty.

Of the relationships I know where I genuinely know a lot about them 1/2 are pretty equitable relationships where parenting/housework etc is genuinely shared. 1/2 woman definitely doing more. I think there is a general opting out of the mental load and when kids come along a small difference in responsibility can become a chasm. Men basically don’r seem to care about the cost of protecting their free time etc, I think women worry more about the impact on the whole family.

I think men are more likely to be lazy and opt out of the drudge work. You see this with single mums as well (not people doing 50:50 but women left holding the baby as it were). Single mums get a hard time yet they are the parent that is still bloody there. I’m not sure how we got to the point where dads seeing their kids for 2 days out of every 14 is a “good” thing. Already told my DH is we ever split up I’ll do EOW.

Because they don't need to fight for the basics of life so it is their moral duty.

The basics of life are only in place because of men.

Whose empties the rubbish, builds houses, catches the criminals? Mainly men.

Who makes up the vast majority of our military (and pretty much all frontline infantry)?

As the saying goes: 'People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.'

As the saying goes: 'People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.'

🤢🤮

Who makes up the vast majority of our military (and pretty much all frontline infantry)?

Didn’t the military refuse to put women on the frontline until very recently?