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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Friend forward facing her 9 month old

264 replies

JimHairy · 23/10/2021 09:01

My friend has a 9 month old DS who she has started front facing in the car. She has a Cosatto rotating car seat and her reasoning is that her son sometimes gets upset when rear facing and is a lot happier when facing forward. This is true, but from being in the car with him previously he’s not that bad in rear facing, just gets a bit frustrated and wriggly but he does settle after about 10 minutes.

She’s a great parent and also has a 7 year old. I’m a FTM so I feel really awkward giving her advice but it’s really really worrying me that her DS is unsafe in the car. This is compounded by a local incident that happened a few years ago where a child died in a head on collision due to an improperly fitted car seat. This is always in my mind.

So far, I’ve sent her the government advice sheet about car seat safety that says to rear face as long as possible and at least until 15 months but she just said that her car seat says it’s ok forward facing babies from 9 months. I didn’t argue, just said I’d seen that it wasn’t advised to forward face so early.

I feel I’ve done what I can by sending her the information and she’s now making an informed decision to forward face, even though it’s clearly very wrong. The other problem (although less so) is that she keeps telling me I should forward face my DS who’s the same age because he hates the car. I’ve said I’d rather he was safe and temporarily unhappy, but she argues that it’s cruel to make him so unhappy even for short periods and the chances of an accident are really low. I won’t be forward facing my DS and he’ll be rear facing as long as possible.

WWYD? Do I keep sending her info or just leave it now?

OP posts:
AccidentallyOnPurpose · 23/10/2021 13:20

@Glitterybug

It's none of your bloody business. Why do people feel the need to police other people's choices?

You're not much of a friend are you. Massively overstepping the line to send her material to read. Butt out and stop trying to "educate her" when she's made the best choice for her family.

The friend keeps asking OP to change her choice and calling it cruel. How is OP the bad friend?
Tiredalwaystired · 23/10/2021 13:23

@BigWoollyJumpers

Can I ask an honest question, as things have changed a lot since my DD's were young.

We used to have three/four DC's back for play and tea after school from about 5 or 6. They all just sat in the back of the car with seatbelts. Does this not happen any more then? How do you get multiple children back for play? You can't get three/four car seats in a standard car.

This is why seven seater cars are now a thing.
Bunnycat101 · 23/10/2021 13:23

DebbieHarrysCheekbones I should have said eldest hit 18kg at 3 so we then bought the 25kg seat. She was fine in it for weight but did reach a point that it became uncomfortable for her legs. I suspect my youngest will never need the bigger seat as she is tiny in comparison.

Onairjunkie · 23/10/2021 13:30

I had a formerly good friend who used to really seem to fret about my parenting. There were so many gasps and raised eyebrows, I used to find it hilarious. She was very easy to wind up.

Anyway, before anyone imagines me letting my child hang from the guttering over a pit of broken glass, it would be over tiny things like giving him a pillow and duvet from one, giving him a metal knife and fork to eat, letting him fall over or try a big slide etc. really minor things.

Anyway, her constant judgement started to wear really thin and now I don’t see her. It was exhausting and she was so superior.

Don’t be that friend. These are not your decisions to make. And if you’re so traumatised by her having a front facing seat then do her a favour and stand back.

rooarsome · 23/10/2021 13:30

OP, you will never change anyone's mind by telling them they have to do x y z and sending leaflets. Look at Miller and Rollnick's research. People do not respond well when told explicitly what to do or what is best.

SickAndTiredAgain · 23/10/2021 13:33

@BigWoollyJumpers

Can I ask an honest question, as things have changed a lot since my DD's were young.

We used to have three/four DC's back for play and tea after school from about 5 or 6. They all just sat in the back of the car with seatbelts. Does this not happen any more then? How do you get multiple children back for play? You can't get three/four car seats in a standard car.

Children under 12 or under 135cm if that comes first must have a car seat. That’s the current law.

There are exceptions - if the journey is short, unexpected and necessary then that’s ok. Or where there is no room for another child seat (say you have two in the back already) then a child over three can sit in the back with just a regular seatbelt. So you could use that exception I guess, if parents are happy with it and you have two other car seats in use in the car.

Sleeplessem · 23/10/2021 13:34

Well I understand why you’d want to say something and keep on saying something as it could really be life and death but should you? Probably not. You’ve passed on the information you know and the evidence which is the best you can do.

Cosatto seats are all style over substance anyway and not particularly safe. Better than the harmony/ team x ones but still largely crap.

OP saw you wanted to rear face with a high centile child under 4 at least, there are some good belted erf seats on the market, check out axikid they go up to 25kg, normally quite pricey but I think I saw a good deal somewhere! There’s some good Fb groups to join thay are very knowledgeable on car seat safety.

We got a joie spin safe which will last us a while for dd and shes lower centile wise, that’s another good choice for anyone looking to erf

Onairjunkie · 23/10/2021 13:35

She used to send me car seat ratings from some German site that she used to translate in Google as she said their testing is more rigorous or something? No idea.

She also said she couldn’t believe I hadn’t sold my beloved fast car to buy something slower and family-safe and was horrified that I put my kid’s car seat in it on occasion. I pointed out that a car’s ability to go fast is entirely in the hands (or feet) of the driver. Looking back, I suspect she had some sort of postnatal anxiety but I didn’t need her projecting that onto me, especially as she wasn’t particularly kind with it.

Frederica852 · 23/10/2021 13:39

@WaterBottle123

Read the chapter in freakonomics about the minimal difference made by car seats vs. people's behaviour on the road and leave your poor friend alone.
This.

Mumsnet is the only place I've ever heard of people rear facing their kids beyond a year old. I changed mine at around 1 year as did everyone else I know

Skysblue · 23/10/2021 13:44

Mind your own business OP. Why on earth are you sending her info?! She’s done her research, made a decision she believes is best for her child, and she doesn’t need bossy supervision from you. All you are doing is annoying her and damaging the friendship.

As a sufferer of travel sickness, travelling backwards in a car is pure hell for me, and in forty years I’ve never been in a car accident. I feel so so sorry for the travel sick toddlers whose parents force them to face backwards as long as possible. For some it is fine, for others it is hell.

Sleeplessem · 23/10/2021 13:48

But the law says 15 months @Frederica852, whilst you may not know people who erf (which is a shame) it is inherently safer, especially with high impact collision

SickAndTiredAgain · 23/10/2021 13:52

@Sleeplessem

But the law says 15 months *@Frederica852*, whilst you may not know people who erf (which is a shame) it is inherently safer, especially with high impact collision
The law doesn’t say 15 months. It says 15 months for height based seats. For weight based seats they can forward face earlier (from 9kg).

www.gov.uk/child-car-seats-the-rules

icedcoffees · 23/10/2021 13:52

@Sleeplessem

But the law says 15 months *@Frederica852*, whilst you may not know people who erf (which is a shame) it is inherently safer, especially with high impact collision
It's only 15 months for certain types of car seat, for others it's based on weight and therefore babies can legally FF before that.
Iwonder08 · 23/10/2021 13:53

Wow.. You sent her the guidance as she is clearly not capable to make informed choices for her own child, is she..
I would be surprised if she still wants you to be her friend

Sleeplessem · 23/10/2021 14:05

Regardless most seats have a height and weight max on them. The cosatto one thay OPs friend has also says rf until 15 months. Just because it’s legal doesn’t make it safe, look at those seats from harmony that literally break in a 30 mph collision, they’re legal but clearly v unsafe. RF is still safer though 🤷‍♀️ A heck of a lot safer no less.

Not sure why people are going in on the OP, sometimes you just don’t know until someone tells you! I’d much rather have someone say, that car seat isn’t the best one you can get for your money for xyz, it could literally save a child’s life

AccidentallyOnPurpose · 23/10/2021 14:07

Really wish posters would actually read the OP and thread instead of repeating the same old mind your own business. And not one of them came back to apologise once it was made obvious to them that the friend started the judgement and conversations.

AccidentallyOnPurpose · 23/10/2021 14:08

@Iwonder08

Wow.. You sent her the guidance as she is clearly not capable to make informed choices for her own child, is she.. I would be surprised if she still wants you to be her friend
She send her the guidance because her friend is calling OP's choice cruel.
FourTeaFallOut · 23/10/2021 14:09

of all the babies wo tragically die in RTAs in the UK, how many were as a direct result of them being forward facing? It isn't as if forward facing = instant death is it?

In 2018, 9 children between 0-15 died as an 'occupant in a car crash'. I can't see how many of these children were babies/toddlers specifically but I am interested to know what the 75% reduction in morality as a result of a forward facing car seat looks like on a sample size like that?

LagunaBubbles · 23/10/2021 14:11

just wondered if I was being selfish to prioritise my friendship over her Ds’s safety? I’m probably over thinking!

I know you mean well and tne friendship means a lot to you but her child's safety is not you worry, it's hers. She's got all the necessary information and is making her choice.

SickAndTiredAgain · 23/10/2021 14:14

@Sleeplessem

Regardless most seats have a height and weight max on them. The cosatto one thay OPs friend has also says rf until 15 months. Just because it’s legal doesn’t make it safe, look at those seats from harmony that literally break in a 30 mph collision, they’re legal but clearly v unsafe. RF is still safer though 🤷‍♀️ A heck of a lot safer no less.

Not sure why people are going in on the OP, sometimes you just don’t know until someone tells you! I’d much rather have someone say, that car seat isn’t the best one you can get for your money for xyz, it could literally save a child’s life

I agree with you. My 2yr old rear faces and on any issue, if a friend had a genuine concern I was doing something unsafe I’d always rather they mention it to me, in case I actually didn’t know. I wouldn’t want them going on about it, but wouldn’t have any issue with a single comment, and then I’d go away and look into it if I hadn’t already.

I was just pointing out you were wrong on the law. I don’t know the reasoning behind the law, are weight based seats safer in some way, so it’s seen ok to have the law give a difference (which could be fairly large depending on the size of the child) in when a child can forward face?

SickAndTiredAgain · 23/10/2021 14:18

@FourTeaFallOut

of all the babies wo tragically die in RTAs in the UK, how many were as a direct result of them being forward facing? It isn't as if forward facing = instant death is it?

In 2018, 9 children between 0-15 died as an 'occupant in a car crash'. I can't see how many of these children were babies/toddlers specifically but I am interested to know what the 75% reduction in morality as a result of a forward facing car seat looks like on a sample size like that?

I’m not sure about all the stats, but it’s not just fatalities. There’s a significant reduction in risk of severe injury as well.
FourTeaFallOut · 23/10/2021 14:20

Absolutely, but the question link pertains to mortality.

If everyone used rear facing car seat would we save one solitary baby from a car death a year, or would we need to wait two?

Opalfeet · 23/10/2021 14:27

There's 1700 0-17 year olds seriously injured in car accidents a year so a conservative estimate is what about 250 under 3s. The risk is fairly low, I'm not saying there's no risk

AliceinBorderland · 23/10/2021 14:27

I have this issue with my sisters children. One of them won't leave her feet on the ground. She puts them against the back of the seat in front and in some cases sits in a V shape and puts her feet almost up on the head rest.

It stresses me out when I'm in the car. I've actually said to the child (as old enough to understand) if a car crashes into the back of us it will break your legs and possibly worse.

Every few minutes she did it again. I would say, feet on the floor and she'd do it and then just do it again.

At the end of the day of her mum won't make her do it the that's her choice. I'd honestly pull the car over and refuse to move until she put her feet down. A woman suffered life changing injuries after having her feet on the dash board instead of on the floor and I'm always reminded of that.

There isn't a lot you can do.

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