Friend forward facing her 9 month old

[JimHairy]

My friend has a 9 month old DS who she has started front facing in the car. She has a Cosatto rotating car seat and her reasoning is that her son sometimes gets upset when rear facing and is a lot happier when facing forward. This is true, but from being in the car with him previously he’s not that bad in rear facing, just gets a bit frustrated and wriggly but he does settle after about 10 minutes.

She’s a great parent and also has a 7 year old. I’m a FTM so I feel really awkward giving her advice but it’s really really worrying me that her DS is unsafe in the car. This is compounded by a local incident that happened a few years ago where a child died in a head on collision due to an improperly fitted car seat. This is always in my mind.

So far, I’ve sent her the government advice sheet about car seat safety that says to rear face as long as possible and at least until 15 months but she just said that her car seat says it’s ok forward facing babies from 9 months. I didn’t argue, just said I’d seen that it wasn’t advised to forward face so early.

I feel I’ve done what I can by sending her the information and she’s now making an informed decision to forward face, even though it’s clearly very wrong. The other problem (although less so) is that she keeps telling me I should forward face my DS who’s the same age because he hates the car. I’ve said I’d rather he was safe and temporarily unhappy, but she argues that it’s cruel to make him so unhappy even for short periods and the chances of an accident are really low. I won’t be forward facing my DS and he’ll be rear facing as long as possible.

WWYD? Do I keep sending her info or just leave it now?

A child unhappy being rear faced is likely to distract the driver and potentially cause an accident, IMO that outweighs the small (albeit heightened) risk of a child being in a FF seat

This is what I was about to post. Distraction is a killer when driving. The child is much more at risk from a driver who is distracted by their crying, than by being in a FF seat.

I agree with you. It's very unsafe and should be illegal, but it's ultimately her choice. Well done for pointing it out though.

Legal and safe aren't the same thing. And studies are clear that even factoring in additional upset and the distraction it causes, RF is STILL safer.

It's very unsafe and should be illegal, but it's ultimately her choice.

Driving is very unsafe, not least for pedestrians. But ultimately, it's our choice.

The thing is OP the guidance on everything to do with babies changes all the time.

Your friends first child is the same age as my daughter, my BF has a 4 month old as well as an older child the same age as DD who has just turned 8. The things that have changed and are advised even in that time is just crazy.

I feel like I'm being deliberately contrary now, sorry I've got nothing against rear facing car seats. I just don't think they are a bar to judge standards of parenting.

There are so many things that pose a risk to babies and children and I'm not entirely sure if these car seats make a such a huge material every day difference to risk that it's worth chastising parents who don't fork out for this bit of kit.

The child may be settled when you are also in the car, but when alone with just the driver could well be distressed- being distracted by a screaming child whilst driving is dangerous. I agree that rear facing is definitely preferable, but if a driver feels more comfortable and like they're going to be less distracted by forward facing then that's safer than heightened risk of a crash. Really drilling down into it some cars are pretty terrible safety wise, do people go round reeling off the safety reports? Once people are made aware of the research its up to them to make a decision really.

@Frederica852

Theres no way you'd fit this in a Polo and get someone in the front seat

Again, depends on the seat, and how much leg room is required in the front seat. But you certainly could fit a Britax MaxWay in the back of a Polo. As I've said already, they take up less front to back space than most infant carriers.

@KatieKoala I wasn't having a go as such, it was just your question stood out to me as I thought it was an interesting one to answer.

People often seem to think RF vs FF is just a theory or that it makes a tiny difference, well yes in real terms someone else then pointed out that only 9 children died in RTCs in one year in the UK (this is brilliant BTW - what if we could make it 0?) - without knowing more info about how many of those children were in seats etc you can't say what the impact would be if everyone rear faced longer, but certainly we have fewer child passenger deaths nowadays than we did during the times it was normal to have children in the back seat two to a seatbelt (and yes, I remember doing this!) or with no seat belt at all. So car seats do make a difference and rear facing for longer is one change that's happened in recent years.

I'm too tired to look up/link all the studies now but ANEC TRAF 2008 is one of them which is really easy to find and read through, though does contain graphic descriptions of accident deaths.

well yes in real terms someone else then pointed out that only 9 children died in RTCs in one year in the UK

Hate to be pedantic, but it was 9 children fatalities were children were within the car. There are far more children in the 0-15 age group killed in RTC, just mostly as pedestrians or cyclists.

My dd went forward facing before 9 months. Severe reflux and motion sickness meant a car journey was impossible.

I'm sure plenty of people judged me but they didn't have dd in their car and constantly cleaning up vomit every school run/trip to the shops/days out.

@KatieKoala

Also *@PamsSpam*, I know you were getting angry with me and it wasn't particularly from a supportive place that you posted, but I do feel weirdly validated by your outrage! I was outraged too, but made to feel like I was being overly critical. She's super prim and proper as well and I'm...not! So I definitely felt as if she must know the sensible thing to do.

Apologies @KatieKoala, I should have been so aggressive, I think I was just shocked and the way I read it was that it was happening now and you were just not dealing with it! But I apologies sincerely, just can’t believe people would leave their little ones home alone…or give them alcohol at 5! X

Ffs I’m at the number of posters who’ve not read the op properly.

OP hasn’t ‘interfered’ with her friend. Her friend is the one who was just about her choice to rf, told her it was cruel and that she should turn her child round. That’s why she sent the guidance, to explain why she made the choice she did.

OP for what’s it’s worth I think you’re getting a really hard time here. I have a similar close friendship where we do lots of things differently with our dc (born 2 months apart) but we never have fallings out over it.

Government advice, is just that advice, not law or regulation. As long as her seat is properly fitted and secured (which I'm sure it is) then the decision is hers to make

www.maxi-cosi.co.uk/c/what-are-car-seat-rules-rear-and-forward-facing-travel

[quote Shmithecat2]@Frederica852

Theres no way you'd fit this in a Polo and get someone in the front seat

Again, depends on the seat, and how much leg room is required in the front seat. But you certainly could fit a Britax MaxWay in the back of a Polo. As I've said already, they take up less front to back space than most infant carriers.[/quote]
Thanks. My DC is 3 so obviously not going to buy another car seat now or try and get her to face backwards again but with our bog standard I size infant carrier my DH really struggled to sit in the front. We now have a Joie spin 360 and that's better but they're still all huge! No idea what people who have 3 kids do.

Frederica852 We have an axkidd mini kid and a britax two way elite for my 2 and both take up less room than the infant carrier. Joie seats are good but I find them very space hungry, whether forward or rear facing. You've also got to remember that to stop the child hitting the seat in front in a crash (when forward facing) there should be at least 55cm from the rear of the seat to the seat in front.

@rainbowdashsneeze

I certainly do

He is extremely happy, he loves long car journeys even with his poor bent knees.

Why would I change him to Ff under such circumstances? As long as he is happy, he stays RF. He even said spontaneously the other day, he loves the views out the roof and back window.
He is in an Axxkid which passes swedish plus safety tests. Check out the advice in Sweden. When WHOLE COUNTRIES follow this advice, I wouldnt sneer at it as "mumsnet crazy". I think you're just insecure about your own choices, if you have to label it as such.

*You really have your children say with their knees bent on long journeys in the car? I certainly do not advocate babies sitting in a front facing car seat but a 4 year!! Sounds totally ridiculous to me having a 4 year old sat in a car with bent knees!! Mumsnet gets crazier by the day.

What??? Every adults sits in the car with their knees bent?! It’s an entirely normal position?!

@ImUninsultable

We are all full time mums. Are you saying you're a stay at home mum? And you think that makes you better at it?

They design car seats which can forward face a child from 9 months. That's against government advice but you cant do anything about it.

If you do speak to her again, dont go on about being a full time mum. We all are. Just because some of us work does not mean we are part time mums and it does not mean we are less capable than you.

It isn’t against government advice. Try reading the actual advice. You may be able to choose from more than one type of seat in the group for your child’s weight.

www.gov.uk/child-car-seats-the-rules
Here’s a direct quote from the actual law! A child weighing 9kg can be forward facing in a type 1 seat. This is completely legal.

Group Seats
0kg to 10kg 0 Lie-flat or ‘lateral’ baby carrier, rear-facing baby carrier, or rear-facing baby seat using a harness
0kg to 13kg 0+ Rear-facing baby carrier or rear-facing baby seat using a harness
9kg to 18kg 1 Rear- or forward-facing baby seat using a harness or safety shield
15kg to 25kg 2 Rear- or forward-facing child car seat (high-backed booster seat or booster cushion) using a seat belt, harness or safety shield
22kg to 36kg 3 Rear- or forward-facing child car seat (high-backed booster seat or booster cushion) using a seat belt, harness or safety shield

I presumed the OP meant 'first time mum' but happy to be corrected.

@modgepodge

*You really have your children say with their knees bent on long journeys in the car? I certainly do not advocate babies sitting in a front facing car seat but a 4 year!! Sounds totally ridiculous to me having a 4 year old sat in a car with bent knees!! Mumsnet gets crazier by the day.

What??? Every adults sits in the car with their knees bent?! It’s an entirely normal position?!

This really made me laugh

And yes, FTM means first-time mum.

You really have your children say with their knees bent on long journeys in the car? I certainly do not advocate babies sitting in a front facing car seat but a 4 year!! Sounds totally ridiculous to me having a 4 year old sat in a car with bent knees!! Mumsnet gets crazier by the day.

Bent knees? Why are you making such a fuss about bent knees? Kids sit with bent knees all the time, whenever they sit cross-legged, or kneel, or sit with their legs dangling off a chair.
Do you have straight legs when you sit in your car?