Friend forward facing her 9 month old

[JimHairy]

My friend has a 9 month old DS who she has started front facing in the car. She has a Cosatto rotating car seat and her reasoning is that her son sometimes gets upset when rear facing and is a lot happier when facing forward. This is true, but from being in the car with him previously he’s not that bad in rear facing, just gets a bit frustrated and wriggly but he does settle after about 10 minutes.

She’s a great parent and also has a 7 year old. I’m a FTM so I feel really awkward giving her advice but it’s really really worrying me that her DS is unsafe in the car. This is compounded by a local incident that happened a few years ago where a child died in a head on collision due to an improperly fitted car seat. This is always in my mind.

So far, I’ve sent her the government advice sheet about car seat safety that says to rear face as long as possible and at least until 15 months but she just said that her car seat says it’s ok forward facing babies from 9 months. I didn’t argue, just said I’d seen that it wasn’t advised to forward face so early.

I feel I’ve done what I can by sending her the information and she’s now making an informed decision to forward face, even though it’s clearly very wrong. The other problem (although less so) is that she keeps telling me I should forward face my DS who’s the same age because he hates the car. I’ve said I’d rather he was safe and temporarily unhappy, but she argues that it’s cruel to make him so unhappy even for short periods and the chances of an accident are really low. I won’t be forward facing my DS and he’ll be rear facing as long as possible.

WWYD? Do I keep sending her info or just leave it now?

@TheOrigRights

How far do you prioritise safety? You know that safest is not to have your child in the car at all. How would you feel if I approached you and suggested you didn't make that car trip to soft play or wherever, accompanied with video footage of RTAs?

She has made her informed decision and you make yours.

Except friend isn't accepting OP's decision and wants her to change hers.

Honestly, OP, you’re getting a hard time on here. There is nothing at all wrong with having a friendship where you can actually be honest rather than constantly worrying if you’re going to offend. In fact, I’d say it is a good thing!

On the car seat thing - I 100% agree with the pp who said about distractions being a much bigger risk. If your friend would be worried about her baby while driving that is a distraction in itself, even if the baby isn’t crying.

@KatieKoala

You are lovely to care so much. Yes, she's technically breaking the law and we all know rear facing is safer. But....how involved can anyone really get in their friends' parenting decisions.

I know people cough...SIL who do things like give their small children wine to get them used to it, leave their babies at home with the baby monitor on and just give the other end to a neighbour so they can go out for dinner and so on.

Not things I would do, but not really my business.

I think I would point it out once and leave it. It is a bit tricky though, when a friend's choices with their dcs are really different to your own. But that's life really!

Sorry, what the hell @KatieKoala?

You know your sister in law leaves her children alone at home and goes out for the night and you haven’t said anything? To her or social services? How old are these children? Seriously, this is not the same thing and this should be dealt with?!

You know your sister in law leaves her children alone at home and goes out for the night and you haven’t said anything? To her or social services? How old are these children? Seriously, this is not the same thing and this should be dealt with?!

I know, it really was awful looking back! Bizarrely, it is not an offence to give children over 5 alcohol (or wasn't when she did it), so wouldn't get anywhere there. The going out thing was horrible. Even then, when I was quite young and didn't have dcs etc, I thought that was fucked up, but honestly everyone in the family knew about it and thought it was totally normal because she'd given the monitor to a neighbour

I actually don't even let them watch my kids now we have them.

The kids are all older now. This was when I was in my early twenties, so 15ish years ago.

It's difficult, OP, but I think that if she cared enough about it she would do her own research. It's obviously just not important to her. Not something I understand but then she's not me.

As for the 'only on MN' thing, everyone I know who has a child DD's age (2.5) is still rear facing them. Perhaps it's just a demograph thing - we are older parents, and most of my friends are also older parents and professionals who are very big on researching purchases, so they all know how much safer it is.

Also @PamsSpam, I know you were getting angry with me and it wasn't particularly from a supportive place that you posted, but I do feel weirdly validated by your outrage! I was outraged too, but made to feel like I was being overly critical. She's super prim and proper as well and I'm...not! So I definitely felt as if she must know the sensible thing to do.

You’ve done what you can. I would always share the risk with a close friend so they can make their own assessment. I remember telling a friend how children shouldn’t wear padded winter coats in car seats due to the risk of them sliding through the straps in an accident and she was really grateful as she hadn’t realised but I wouldn’t have said anything further if she’d continued to do it.
Once you’ve mentioned something to inform a friend of a risk I wouldn’t then revisit it, as ultimately it’s your friend’s risk to assess and you risk damaging your friendship. Everyone perceives risk differently. I’ve rear faced my children until they are much older but it is only a recent development in car seats so although it’s a risk it’s not a huge one.

What car seat do you use when they get to 4? I am looking for a new car seat, have been rear facing but now getting too small

ERF seats go up to 25kg, but if you have a child right at the top of the weight centile then you won't be able to get to 8 as they'll hit the weight limit earlier. The spin/360 seats go up to 18kg.

Britax Maxway Plus or the Axkid Minikid are two of the most popular 25kg ERF seats.

You know, after reading some of your follow up comments I feel that you and your friend have a very frank and healthy friendship and feel comfortable enough to comment on differences in choices/parenting styles. Seems like there are many cases where one of you comment but in the end you may decide to do stick to your original style. Maybe sometimes you will inspire one another to adjust your styles. Value this friendship. You care enough to comment where many people are too shy to and let their friends self destruct in various ways. However, you've now said your piece and its up to your friend.

Maybe a car mirror would be an option though for keeping rear facing seats longer and keep the kid happy? If you have a constantly screaming baby this is also dangerous to driving. Might distract the parent in a crucial situation.

Isn’t it usually by weight rather than age? Our grandson’s seats are.

I found lots of people thought front facing their kid in a car seat was some sort of developmental milestone, like weaning, walking etc that should happen asap.
I RF DS until he was 4 and got lots of comments about him being uncomfortable, being bored, getting sick etc. He is a tall child.
My answer was always that it was demonstrably far safer and that car accidents were something that most people have no control over and therefore I had to do what I thought was safest. They just wanted to justify their own decisions by criticising mine. There are some occasions where it's not practical but that doesn't make it any safer.
This thread backs that up really. You can't win this argument OP so you're just going to have to let it go and tell her its not up for discussion if she starts.

It's none of your bloody business. Why do people feel the need to police other people's choices?

You're not much of a friend are you. Massively overstepping the line to send her material to read. Butt out and stop trying to "educate her" when she's made the best choice for her family.

I would say that in general MN is against RF. It's odd, given the studies that support it, when on other threads people are berated for giving their child a penguin bar or something because it's putting their health at risk. Virtually everyone I know now with young children RF them. DS3 was about 5 1/2 when I stopped due to him getting too heavy for his seat. There was still plenty of room in it. Interestingly I have not commented on other people's choice of car seat but I've had people comment on mine.

@DrCoconut

I would say that in general MN is against RF. It's odd, given the studies that support it, when on other threads people are berated for giving their child a penguin bar or something because it's putting their health at risk. Virtually everyone I know now with young children RF them. DS3 was about 5 1/2 when I stopped due to him getting too heavy for his seat. There was still plenty of room in it. Interestingly I have not commented on other people's choice of car seat but I've had people comment on mine.

I would say it's 100% the opposite.

Everyone on MN appears to rear-face their seven year olds, but in reality I don't know anyone who rear-faces beyond 6-9 months of age, let alone well into primary school.

I think it is just demograph. MN will just have a higher proportion of people who use the internet to research and make decisions and who look at parenting advice and websites. People who aren't interested in that stuff just won't tend to use the site. And it's the same for certain friend circles IRL too. As I said, everyone I am friends with who has young children has rear faced them well into toddlerhood, but perhaps it's the echo chamber thing because we all have similar outlooks and approaches to researching information, etc.

@DrCoconut

I would say that in general MN is against RF. It's odd, given the studies that support it, when on other threads people are berated for giving their child a penguin bar or something because it's putting their health at risk. Virtually everyone I know now with young children RF them. DS3 was about 5 1/2 when I stopped due to him getting too heavy for his seat. There was still plenty of room in it. Interestingly I have not commented on other people's choice of car seat but I've had people comment on mine.

My experience is exactly the opposite. I know precisely one family in real-life who have ERF despite being in an ‘older, professional’ demographic (to cite a pp).

Car seat discussions often seem to be a bit fraught. It is quite clear that rear facing is safer but whether for cultural or just educational reasons it seems to wind people up. You don’t seem to get the same push back for cutting up grapes or other safety things. That said though, some people push it too far and see things black and white. If a child is vomiting/screaming etc when rear facing they are likely to be more of a distraction and presenting more risk.

For what it’s worth, my first rear faced until 41/2 before she outgrew her extended rear facing seat. She is on the 91st centile so will be taller than the vast majority. Youngest is much shorter and will probably manage in her 18kg seat until 4.

I think it tends to annoy some people who had children before it was a 'thing' because they think there's some sort of implicit criticism of their own parenting (the same way as the 'well I put my children to sleep on their front and they were all fine' brigade and the 'my Nan smoked 40 cigarettes every day and lived to 500' crew).

I just think some people are incapable of separating 'Now we know better so we can do better' from 'You didn't do this so you're a bad parent'. Even though research is always finding out new things, some are scathing of parents acting on it because they did XYZ with their own and believe that they did the best for their child, which they probably did with the knowledge we had at the time. In 10 years, some of the stuff I do with DD will probably no longer be judged as the safest option - that's just the way it goes. But I hope I won't be defensive about it because we can only operate on the information we have at the time.

That said, I don't understand anyone who has access to that updated information and chooses not to follow it, but then perhaps some of my parenting decisions are just as inexplicable to others. Just life, innit?

When my ds was small you turned them to a forward-facing seat at around 9 months. I think the keeping them rear facing for much longer is a very new thing isn't it?

The thing that has always surprised me is the fact that so many parents allow their quite small children to sit in the front seat of the car. My mother wouldn't let me sit in the front until I was about 12, and I was the same with ds.

slightly off topic but relevant
rear facing seats are safer full stop - for anyone
In RAF passenger planes the seats face backwards - for precisely that reason but because civilian paying for yourself passengers don't like traveling that way (some get travel sick) or you can't see out of the window or the cost (who knows?) seats on planes, buses & cars face forward (obviously in cars doing this might be impractical structurally & convenience wise!)

@KatieKoala

You are lovely to care so much. Yes, she's technically breaking the law and we all know rear facing is safer. But....how involved can anyone really get in their friends' parenting decisions.

I know people cough...SIL who do things like give their small children wine to get them used to it, leave their babies at home with the baby monitor on and just give the other end to a neighbour so they can go out for dinner and so on.

Not things I would do, but not really my business.

I think I would point it out once and leave it. It is a bit tricky though, when a friend's choices with their dcs are really different to your own. But that's life really!

It's not illegal if she's using an old r44 type seat that forward faces from 9kg.

Let people do what they need to do. None of your business.

@Bunnycat101

Car seat discussions often seem to be a bit fraught. It is quite clear that rear facing is safer but whether for cultural or just educational reasons it seems to wind people up. You don’t seem to get the same push back for cutting up grapes or other safety things. That said though, some people push it too far and see things black and white. If a child is vomiting/screaming etc when rear facing they are likely to be more of a distraction and presenting more risk.

For what it’s worth, my first rear faced until 41/2 before she outgrew her extended rear facing seat. She is on the 91st centile so will be taller than the vast majority. Youngest is much shorter and will probably manage in her 18kg seat until 4.

Weight is the most criteria for car seat having being outgrown as opposed to whether a child is short or not My almost four year old was on the 99th centile for height but much lower for weight and consequently was able to stay in his rear facing car eat (up to 18kg) for longer than my friends child who is far shorter but was 18kg some six months earlier than him and couldn’t stay rear facing in the exact same car seat

Can I ask an honest question, as things have changed a lot since my DD's were young.

We used to have three/four DC's back for play and tea after school from about 5 or 6. They all just sat in the back of the car with seatbelts. Does this not happen any more then? How do you get multiple children back for play? You can't get three/four car seats in a standard car.