Another selfish, selfish man furious that no one was paying attention to him

[Notusuallyshocked]

This just makes me so angry...

www.suffolknews.co.uk/ipswich/news/man-who-shot-wife-and-left-her-to-die-as-he-ate-breakfast-is-9222020/

He shot his wife and left their children to find her body because she 'wasn't paying enough attention to him or his needs'.

As the judge said, 'she was carrying the entire burden of running that house whilst you took to bed.'

An 8 year minimum sentence doesn't seem long enough. Another example of undervaluing women's lives.

This man was getting treatment, I believe he had seen professionals 26 days out of 42? He also had medication that he refuse to take, he also apparently refused to engage with help and apparently still is refusing therapy. It's not a case of someone being left until something tragic happens, this person had lots of involvement, far more than most receive but he refused to engage and I believe is still refusing. That's why my sympathy is limited and mainly reserved for the poor woman that has lost her life and the two innocent children left to find her body. I'm sorry that's mean but there it is. This man has murdered his wife and from the judges comments doesn't seem that sorry about it.

It's not fair to blame the mental health professionals for this as they were doing their best but at the end of the day if someone refuses to help themselves (and it sounds like this was the case going from the judges comments) there is only so much that they can do.

I do agree with you though that I would like to see guns even more restricted. I also think that if you get a gun license then it's should be given on the understanding that as soon as you develop any mental illness the Dr can break confidentiality and call the police to remove your weapon. I hold no truck that the gun is a tool like a spade or something. It's a weapon. It's primary purpose is to kill (whether animal or human), sometimes you need to kill animals as part of your job but it doesn't change the fact that a gun is a weapon. People do not need access to weapons. Especially people with mental illness or instability. I think anyone with a criminal record or history of abusive/anti social behaviour should also be barred from having guns.

@startrek90

This man was getting treatment, I believe he had seen professionals 26 days out of 42? He also had medication that he refuse to take, he also apparently refused to engage with help and apparently still is refusing therapy. It's not a case of someone being left until something tragic happens, this person had lots of involvement, far more than most receive but he refused to engage and I believe is still refusing. That's why my sympathy is limited and mainly reserved for the poor woman that has lost her life and the two innocent children left to find her body. I'm sorry that's mean but there it is. This man has murdered his wife and from the judges comments doesn't seem that sorry about it.

It's not fair to blame the mental health professionals for this as they were doing their best but at the end of the day if someone refuses to help themselves (and it sounds like this was the case going from the judges comments) there is only so much that they can do.

I do agree with you though that I would like to see guns even more restricted. I also think that if you get a gun license then it's should be given on the understanding that as soon as you develop any mental illness the Dr can break confidentiality and call the police to remove your weapon. I hold no truck that the gun is a tool like a spade or something. It's a weapon. It's primary purpose is to kill (whether animal or human), sometimes you need to kill animals as part of your job but it doesn't change the fact that a gun is a weapon. People do not need access to weapons. Especially people with mental illness or instability. I think anyone with a criminal record or history of abusive/anti social behaviour should also be barred from having guns.

Refusing to take medication,can all be part and parcel of having an acutely psychotic illness ,people lack the insight to know they are unwell and the need to take medication,many people deny they are having auditory hallucinations,or delusional beliefs , sometimes people end up being forced to take medication,intra muscularly in injectable form ,whilst detained under the mental health act there is a broad range of mental illness,some are far more serious than others

Notusuallyshocked

This man was not psychotic all the time. That would have made him insane. At most he was a depressive hypochondriac who was alleged to have killed his wife during a psychotic episode. Even if you accept the medical evidence that he lacked capacity at the time of the killing (which the judge seemed sceptical about), he had capacity the rest of the time.

The verdict was diminished responsibility. It wasn't not guilty by reason of insanity.

‘Insane’ is not a diagnostic category. It’s an old fashioned and now derogatory term to describe a person who is experiencing a serious mental health problem.

The nature of psychosis is that it can come and go. If you spend time talking with someone in the grips of a psychotic episode, there are often moments of clarity that pop up fleetingly. See it a bit like when you have a cold - that feeling of being all bunged up doesn’t just appear suddenly, stay for a set number of days and then go suddenly. It gradually builds up, there will be waves of feeling worse, times when you think ‘aha! The cold had gone!’, only to feel crap again in an hour.

You have a good point in terms of toxic masculinity and it’s effect on how male to female violence has been talked about and dealt with in this country. It may well be that this has played its part in this case...

AND

In this case, a qualified professional has assessed the man and diagnosed him with a serious mental health problem that was, beyond reasonable doubt, at least partly responsible for what happened.

It’s normal and right to be shocked, angered and horrified by what he did. It’s right to question our society that still doesn’t have true gender equality and where male to female violence is still rife and the justice system doesn’t work properly. It’s really good to question the current gun licensing process. But please be careful about what you write. It’s not an either/or situation. It’s much more likely a both/and.

His actions may well have been fuelled by the shitty male dominated world women live in AND he had a diagnosable mental health condition that contributed to what he did.

Some of the content of this thread is doing a real disservice to the gains that have been made in terms of reducing stigma around our mental health and how we discuss it.

@mountbattenbergcake

Funny how so few women get depression and kill, isn't it?

It's a fucking man's world.

And when they do they are absolutely torn to shreds by other women. Yet here is a thread filled with posts by women defending this man. The internalised misogyny is awful.

This man didn't have depression though ,he had a psychotic illness ,huge difference

And nobody is defending ,just pointing out that killing somebody ,when being psychotic ,is entirely different to killing somebody in cold blood ,which is why he.will be treated in a secure mental health unit .

x2boys

And nobody is defending ,just pointing out that killing somebody ,when being psychotic ,is entirely different to killing somebody in cold blood ,which is why he.will be treated in a secure mental health unit .

Absolutely agree.

Yes. Like peter sutcliffe and Rachel Nickel’s killer/the green belt rapist and countless other men who committed terrible crimes and managed to get a diagnosis that kept them out of the general prison population.

Funny how it’s almost always a feller isn’t it?

I suspect there are very few people of completely sound mind who ever deliberately kill another human being. It does not exculpate them. The system takes it into account with many other factors at sentencing.

If you read the judge’s sentencing comments, he saw through his bullshit. Plenty of others see through it. It’s a shame you can’t/won’t

@startrek90

This man was getting treatment, I believe he had seen professionals 26 days out of 42? He also had medication that he refuse to take, he also apparently refused to engage with help and apparently still is refusing therapy. It's not a case of someone being left until something tragic happens, this person had lots of involvement, far more than most receive but he refused to engage and I believe is still refusing. That's why my sympathy is limited and mainly reserved for the poor woman that has lost her life and the two innocent children left to find her body. I'm sorry that's mean but there it is. This man has murdered his wife and from the judges comments doesn't seem that sorry about it.

It's not fair to blame the mental health professionals for this as they were doing their best but at the end of the day if someone refuses to help themselves (and it sounds like this was the case going from the judges comments) there is only so much that they can do.

I do agree with you though that I would like to see guns even more restricted. I also think that if you get a gun license then it's should be given on the understanding that as soon as you develop any mental illness the Dr can break confidentiality and call the police to remove your weapon. I hold no truck that the gun is a tool like a spade or something. It's a weapon. It's primary purpose is to kill (whether animal or human), sometimes you need to kill animals as part of your job but it doesn't change the fact that a gun is a weapon. People do not need access to weapons. Especially people with mental illness or instability. I think anyone with a criminal record or history of abusive/anti social behaviour should also be barred from having guns.

If someone is potentially a danger to themselves or others they should be in hospital, sectioned if necessary. A psychotic person is not in a position to understand their condition, manage their medication or engage. They are psychotic.

@thedancingbear

Yes. Like peter sutcliffe and Rachel Nickel’s killer/the green belt rapist and countless other men who committed terrible crimes and managed to get a diagnosis that kept them out of the general prison population.

Funny how it’s almost always a feller isn’t it?

I suspect there are very few people of completely sound mind who ever deliberately kill another human being. It does not exculpate them. The system takes it into account with many other factors at sentencing.

If you read the judge’s sentencing comments, he saw through his bullshit. Plenty of others see through it. It’s a shame you can’t/won’t

Judges tend not to be experts in mental ,Illness,unlike the forensic psychiatrists who will have spent,many hours assessing ,I'm not sure why you seem to think you know better than them 🙄

@thedancingbear

Yes. Like peter sutcliffe and Rachel Nickel’s killer/the green belt rapist and countless other men who committed terrible crimes and managed to get a diagnosis that kept them out of the general prison population.

Funny how it’s almost always a feller isn’t it?

I suspect there are very few people of completely sound mind who ever deliberately kill another human being. It does not exculpate them. The system takes it into account with many other factors at sentencing.

If you read the judge’s sentencing comments, he saw through his bullshit. Plenty of others see through it. It’s a shame you can’t/won’t

Do you think they get an easier time in a prison for the criminally insane? Seriously? They can also end up being detained for far longer than if they went to prison.

And when they do they are absolutely torn to shreds by other women. Yet here is a thread filled with posts by women defending this man. The internalised misogyny is awful. Rubbish, women on here have made excuses for a woman who killed a disabled child. No one tore her to shreds. Women on here also defended a woman who killed her husband, admittedly others linked to the chilling phone call she made but I didn't see her torn to shreds.

@NiceGerbil

Can you provide different info to show who said what about his MH please?

Loads of people have MH issues from mild to severe.

They don't go around killing people.

To have it as defence/ mitigation it needs to be full on psychosis as in no idea what doing. Hallucinating. Really far gone.

Got a link?

Sorry, can’t provide a link - just wanted to say that people with MH issues who are off their meds shouldn’t be able to renew a shotgun license. A farmer friend of ours had MH problems and had his license revoked for a while. An application to renew it was rejected because he made a mistake with the date of a psychiatric review on the application form. So it would seem that it’s about time the procedure for issuing and renewing licenses was standardised so that the same restrictions apply across the board.

@2Two I would hope someone would escape an abusive relationship in time before there was a killing and especially when children are affected but obviously that isn’t always possible sadly.
If someone is unwell and/or evil and they kill, that means they could kill again so they should be kept locked up to keep the public safe. When someone kills they prove they don’t value life or laws and illness or not they need to be put away for life.

[quote MumofBreck]@2Two I would hope someone would escape an abusive relationship in time before there was a killing and especially when children are affected but obviously that isn’t always possible sadly.
If someone is unwell and/or evil and they kill, that means they could kill again so they should be kept locked up to keep the public safe. When someone kills they prove they don’t value life or laws and illness or not they need to be put away for life.[/quote]
He will be kept in hospital for a long time he might never get out ,if he continues to be a risk it will be up to the forensic psychiatrists ,and home office to deem wether he's a risk or not ,I would envisage he would be kept in hospital for far longer than eight years tbh

[quote MumofBreck]@2Two I would hope someone would escape an abusive relationship in time before there was a killing and especially when children are affected but obviously that isn’t always possible sadly.
If someone is unwell and/or evil and they kill, that means they could kill again so they should be kept locked up to keep the public safe. When someone kills they prove they don’t value life or laws and illness or not they need to be put away for life.[/quote]
Quite possibly, which is why they get committed to hospital rather than prison. But your point was that they should automatically go to prison for the rest of their lives, even if they are in fact very unwell and need treatment.

And you simply can't say that someone whose mental health has been severely affected by abuse who then kills their abuser has really shown that they don't value life, or that there is realistically any likelihood that they will kill again once they have received appropriate treatment.

If someone takes a life, they should be locked up in any appropriate facility necessary. The victim and their family and friends cannot get ‘better’ with treatment so it is not worth the risk in letting someone out when they have already caused such horrid damage and they have shown they have the mental and physical capacity to kill. It pains me every time I read about reoffenders being let out only to cause hurt again.

@DorsVenabili

I'm not sure its as clear cut as selfish man kills wife- he clearly has/had a psychiatric issue - and thats not just what the defence said I do think one issue is why should someone with mental health issues be able to get a gun licence-and whilst i can see that he lied surely you shouldn't be able to lie- there should be some sort of central check/need to get a medical sign off etc

Absolutely this. When is mental health going to be generally understood and taken seriously in our society? There were likely to have been plenty of signs . Yes guns as well presumably this was a rural set up with some farm reason to need a gun? Not sure why so easy to get them. Presume the supplier also investigated and charged if negligent? So now a cycle children’s trauma possibly creating another generations mental health issues. All avoidable

@MumofBreck

If someone takes a life, they should be locked up in any appropriate facility necessary. The victim and their family and friends cannot get ‘better’ with treatment so it is not worth the risk in letting someone out when they have already caused such horrid damage and they have shown they have the mental and physical capacity to kill. It pains me every time I read about reoffenders being let out only to cause hurt again.

Can you really not fathom the possibility that the vast majority of homicides (particularly manslaughter) are one-offs with no possibility of repetition? Take your argument to its logical conclusion and we would have to lock up for ever everyone who has ever killed in self defence, and indeed everyone who has ever served in the forces, because they have shown the capacity to kill.

@MumofBreck

If someone takes a life, they should be locked up in any appropriate facility necessary. The victim and their family and friends cannot get ‘better’ with treatment so it is not worth the risk in letting someone out when they have already caused such horrid damage and they have shown they have the mental and physical capacity to kill. It pains me every time I read about reoffenders being let out only to cause hurt again.

Everybody has the physical capability to kill so I don't know what you mean by that. If you can hold a kitchen knife you're able to kill somebody. In terms of mental capacity it was more that he lacked capacity than had the capacity to kill.

I find these discussions so biased though as I said above. One of the biggest feminist icons attempted to shoot three people, managing to shoot two with the gun jamming on the third, which would've almost certainly killed him as it was point blank.

It was only pure luck that she didn't kill three innocent people as she certainly wanted to. Had she achieved her objective, it would've been a much worse case than the one in this thread and yet she is still revered by feminists. And she only got three years due to being judged mentally unstable.