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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To feel scared/intimidated by autistic staff member

292 replies

orangemum92 · 22/10/2021 00:20

I work part time in an office of a large organisation and I also manage some staff, though most of them are remote. One of my direct reports in the office has quite severe Aspergers and was recently moved to my team from his previous team due to harassing a young female colleague (who happens to be of a similar age and appearance as me). He is fairly older.

I am not sure whether management told him the reason he was being moved. I also do not believe the woman's complaint was formalised; it was dealt with "off the books" basically as there is nothing on his file. The limited info I have is that he would follow her from work to her car every night, asked her out several times despite her saying no, and eventually attempted to coerce her by telling her to meet him at [place] on [date] at [time] as he had arranged a team night out. When she mentioned it to other colleagues, she learned there was no such thing planned and he had lied. Prior to this he was also separated from another female colleague of similar age and appearance though I have none of the details and again it was dealt with off the books.

He hasn't done anything that bold with me, but these are some of the things he does:

  • waits until there is no one around my desk, then approaches & asks personal questions. When I try to end the conversation by turning to my computer and typing, he tends to just stand at the side and stare at me for a minute or so before walking away.
  • he sits diagonally in front of me in the row of desks in front, facing away from me. at a rate of, I would say, 2-3 times per 10 minutes he turns his head around just to look directly at me - I don't think he's aware that I can see him doing this as I'm behind a screen but I see him peripherally. If I make eye contact he quickly turns back as if he's been caught doing something wrong.
  • often at the end of the work day when it's just me and him left, he will turn around completely in his chair and just sits and stares at me while I work. I think in his head, he's trying to think of a conversation starter but can't think of one so just resorts to sitting and staring
  • other colleagues have said that as soon as I leave my desk he looks around for me incessantly, sometimes standing up and walking around to see where I've gone.
  • has approached me several times while I've been walking around the city after work, always acting shocked to have bumped into me, saying "oh, hi [name]!" not sure if he follows me, but he has also showed up in the same shop I've gone into and seemed to be following me around the aisles.

To note, there is a colleague I work directly with who sits next to me (I'll refer to them as T). When T is present, he tends not to do these things (though T has seen it a couple of times from afar). Essentially he waits for T to leave the room and then approaches almost immediately.

This may make me sound like a terrible person but his entire behaviour around me just makes me entirely uncomfortable. There is the staring, but also his general demeanour when speaking to me - shaking vigorously, stuttering etc which he does not do around others. To make matters worse, I was abused as a child by someone with the exact same first name, disorder and mannerisms as him so it brings back awful memories. He is also extremely tall and built and I am tiny which again just adds to the intimidation.

I explained all of this to my manager (minus the childhood background) and she said she had also noticed his behaviour around me, but that he can't help it, she feels sorry for him and that I am not allowed to tell him that he makes me feel uncomfortable. I don't buy the fact that he doesn't know what he's doing/can't help it because if that was the case, he wouldn't be waiting until no one else is present to do it. He is also very intelligent and can be very manipulative when he wants to be. Also when given any kind of negative feedback he snaps and become extremely angry so even if I did address it I would be worried about the consequences. I'm also not allowed to take anyone in the room with me when I have meetings with him as it is deemed as bullying.

Anyway, in an attempt at resolving it indirectly, a few weeks ago I tried to rearrange the seating plan for our department, and I used the excuse of new people returning to the office. Everyone else moved as planned but he refused (quite aggressively) to move and got the union involved. The union then told me I'm not allowed to move him due to his Aspergers as it causes him distress.

The reason I'm asking this question now is because T (who is a great deterrent for his behaviour) is on annual leave for 2 weeks from Monday. I am extremely anxious about this as I know the colleague will be staring and harassing me constantly. In the past when T has been off, I struggle to focus on my work as I spend most of the shift on edge and aware of him constantly staring at me.

I'm contemplating having a meeting tomorrow and kindly asking him to move again but I don't know if that will be futile as he will most likely involve the union again. I want to know if there's anything else I can actually do other than request to be moved teams which I really would prefer not to do. I have an anxiety disorder and have worked on the team for ages, I am comfortable and happy there and moving would mean being away from T who has been the most amazing support for me for years and helps me with my anxiety brilliantly.

Also for the record in case anyone thinks I could be biased - I have managed several staff over the years who have had Aspergers, autism and various other disorders and they've all been brilliant. I've had one or two who have overstepped boundaries either with myself or other staff but were completely receptive to the feedback and stopped the behaviour. This situation is different as I'm being told I'm not allowed to address it with him.

AIBU here? Am I just being an insensitive paranoid b or should I/my manager/ work be doing more to curtail his behaviour?

OP posts:
wizzywig · 23/10/2021 10:30

I'd say the Asd is absolutely a factor. You are his special interest

Cuntness · 23/10/2021 10:40

I worked with a similar guy. We sat in a tiny office with our desks along opposite walls and our backs to each other. He'd roll his chair back and grab me from behind all the time. He'd also constantly talk about bending me over a desk and "boning" me. I just ignored it due to him having Aspergers but I really think that was wrong (I was quite young).

It was horrible. No one else in the office stood up for me - I was the only female. He was moved to a different department eventually.

NannyOggsWhiskyStash · 23/10/2021 11:24

Sounds like a crap, awkward situation that he is well aware off and is using his disability as a shield for shitty behaviour, but as his manager, have you spoken to him about your concerns. It's your job to do this, literally. And document everything.

ChuckleN · 23/10/2021 11:39

His aspergers is a factor, he obviously fixates on certain people and has difficulty socialising appropriately with women, adding to that a lack of social cues, so has difficulty understanding when he makes people uncomfortable.

Your work place are not helping him or you by not challenging his behaviour.

I have a lot of experience with autistic adults and supporting with behaviour and social cues is not something that should just be ignored for fear of offending. A professional conversation with him and HR present needs to be had.

If you perceive this as harassment in the workplace then that is enough, their perception does not matter. In fact they are creating a culture where harassment is accepted as your colleagues are talking and joking about it.

Get to HR and make yourself heard.

TheChiefJo · 23/10/2021 11:47

@PigeonLittle

I think due to his aspergers you need to be very direct about your needs in a way he comprehends. Absolutely no extra fluff on the following sentences. Said loudly, sharply. No not follow up with any other explaination. If there is follow up, repeat your sentence.

Stop staring at me please, I need to work.

I've answered your question now, I need to go back to my work.

Do not follow me, this is inappropriate. I do not like being followed.

This is in addition to following up with union, management, enforced distancing at work by desk changes etc.

I would try and move my desk position, out of sight out of mind.

This is good advice.
HoppingPavlova · 23/10/2021 13:07

He'd roll his chair back and grab me from behind all the time. He'd also constantly talk about bending me over a desk and "boning" me. I just ignored it due to him having Aspergers but I really think that was wrong

That’s not Aspergers. That’s a perverted cunt. My DS with Aspergers would never think to do that. Sure, they would talk your ear off about an interest of theirs that bores everyone else silly and they don’t take social cues in this regard. But they don’t display perverted behaviour like this. Aspergers honestly is not some cover for every bad behaviour in the world.

Skysblue · 23/10/2021 13:39

You’re being sexually harassed and bullied at work and the person with a discrimination claim is YOU. You have legal rights.

Start formal processes to HR / your manager and make sure everything is in writing. Keep repeating “This is not about autism/asbergers, this is about a male employee sexually harassing a female employee, that is illegal, how are you going to fix this?”

Do you have a union? Or lawyer?

If you end up leaving because you’re harrassed out of your job, you would very probably have a claim against the company for damages because of constructive dismissal/ sexual discrimination. Make sure you have raised the issues in writing and get written responses so you have a paper trail of evidence.

Keep a log with dates and times of incidences of harassment.

Do not allow the company to make this about disability. This is about sexual harassment.

TractorAndHeadphones · 23/10/2021 15:58

@wizzywig

I'd say the Asd is absolutely a factor. You are his special interest
But he knows the behaviour is inappropriate as he modulates it when T is around. Whatever the reasons for his behaviour it is unacceptable.
MoreJammyDodgersPlease · 23/10/2021 16:06

Same with my former colleague: I was told he didn't understand what he was doing wrong, but somehow he managed to work out not to do it when the boss was around, and step it up again when the boss was away. Your colleague needs to be clearly told what not to do, and to face consequences if he continues.

RealBecca · 23/10/2021 16:43

Join, and then speak, to the union from your angle. You have raised a concern to your manager and you dont feel that was listened to.

Butterfly44 · 23/10/2021 16:56

You need to feel safe at work. Absolutely no all your HR/union. Ask to move seats. You shouldn't be dreading the upcoming two weeks T isn't there!

starrynight87 · 25/10/2021 15:55

Any update OP?

TheChiefJo · 25/10/2021 16:26

Yeah, hope you're OK OP.

EnigmaCat · 25/10/2021 18:51

@Cuntness

I worked with a similar guy. We sat in a tiny office with our desks along opposite walls and our backs to each other. He'd roll his chair back and grab me from behind all the time. He'd also constantly talk about bending me over a desk and "boning" me. I just ignored it due to him having Aspergers but I really think that was wrong (I was quite young).

It was horrible. No one else in the office stood up for me - I was the only female. He was moved to a different department eventually.

I got angry reading this, if I saw that I'd be tempted to do similar to him so he gets the idea (I'm male). Sorry this happened to you, I helped get a guy sacked for a lot less.
MrsSchadenfreude · 25/10/2021 19:06

Lots of good advice on here. We had someone similar to your colleague in our office. He developed an obsession with one of the women. He was caught wanking over her desk. The third time he did it, they sacked him. No-one wanted to say or do anything because of his autism. I say the third time he did it - it was the third time he was caught, as she had found jizz in her desk drawer and on her desk before. She had her suspicions but couldn’t prove anything.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 25/10/2021 19:26

I would be extremely direct. I would say to him: Do not stare at me. Do not follow me. Do not engage me in chat when there is no one else in the room. You may not realise this but it is very intimidating. I am not comfortable with it. You have been removed from other teams because this behaviour intimidates female co workers. If you intimidate me in the same way even once more I will have to inform HR

All of this is sensible, but ignores that OP's been told she can't even take someone else into meetings with him "because it'll be bullying"
They're being very foolish to enable this, and because of their choices he'll certainly feel encouraged to cry "discrimination" which could easily be made to rebound on OP

Therefore I'd do nothing without consulting the union first, and in the meantime I'd make it very clear that everything (including HR's responses) were being carefully noted

PetuniaButterworth · 25/10/2021 22:16

I empathize with you OP. I experienced the same lack of support from my line manager. In my case my co worker became fixated on the fact I was at the level above him even though he had a PhD and I didn't. We were both clerical support so a PhD or any degree for that matter wasn't a requirement for either of our posts.

He would stare at me frequently and try to start a conversation about my lack of qualifications and his superior intelligence at least once an hour. If I left my desk he would follow me. He wanted me to agree with him and tell our line manager to give him my job When I reported his behaviour to her I was advised to have some compassion for his Asperger's Diagnosis and to just ignore him.

Thankfully after three months of feeling constantly on edge I got a promotion to another department, even then he email my new manager with his CV explaining how he would be better suited for the post as he has a PhD.

It was harrasment and he shouldn't have been given a by ball. He's ruined my old department he's driven everyone out and new starts never stay.

feeona123 · 26/10/2021 00:52

@MrsSchadenfreude Surely the 1st time should have been a sackable offence!! Shock

Justilou1 · 26/10/2021 04:08

@MrsSchadenfreude - IT TOOK THREE TIMES??? *You don’t happen to work as a staffer at Parliament House in Australia do you?

pelosi · 26/10/2021 06:37

This made me so angry. Yet again a woman is being expected to pander to a man. Angry

He needs to be sacked, otherwise he is just going to be moved to another woman’s team, who may not feel she can go to her union/HR.

pelosi · 26/10/2021 06:42

@HoppingPavlova

He'd roll his chair back and grab me from behind all the time. He'd also constantly talk about bending me over a desk and "boning" me. I just ignored it due to him having Aspergers but I really think that was wrong

That’s not Aspergers. That’s a perverted cunt. My DS with Aspergers would never think to do that. Sure, they would talk your ear off about an interest of theirs that bores everyone else silly and they don’t take social cues in this regard. But they don’t display perverted behaviour like this. Aspergers honestly is not some cover for every bad behaviour in the world.

Can we just please sympathise with women for once?
pelosi · 26/10/2021 06:44

@timeisnotaline

Email - writing. Dear manager, we have discussed X several times. I am aware of his history of intimidating behaviour with employees of similar appearance to me and have told you that not only does this behaviour occur in the office but he often turns up where I am when I am in town. I suffer from anxiety which is usually quite manageable but I find it has been escalating while I have to manage X. Given your instructions that I may not bring anyone else to meetings with X nor may I let him know I am uncomfortable with some of his behaviours, you will need to find a new manager for X. I appreciate this can’t be done tomorrow, but it is an urgent request. Additionally, his behaviour is less intimidating when my colleague T who shares the office space with us is around. t is taking 2 weeks leave starting x; my GP will sign me off for anxiety for those two weeks as I am unable to share an office alone with X for that period. Please note that I have numerous times managed employees with Aspergers and other conditions and have never encountered this before, but am unable to continue putting my mental health at risk to meet your management requirements and keep X comfortable.

I look forward to your response.
Regards

And you can either cc hr or wait for her response and cc hr on your response to that. I think your gp will happily sign you off. Don’t put yourself through those 2 weeks!

I would do this, 💯
maddening · 26/10/2021 06:59

@user1473878824

"This isn’t a dig at you mentioning it, OP, but I don’t think being autistic has anything to do with it - his behaviour is absolutely not okay and I don’t think management using his autism as a way to tell you not to say anything to him is right at all."

The autism is relevant as her company is preventing her from handling him as any other employee would be ad they are worried about breaking disability laws. She can't address his behaviour, she can't move him, he gets yo stalk her with no consequence just like the 2 previous times where he has been moved with no consequence to his hr file.

user1473878824 · 26/10/2021 07:01

[quote maddening]@user1473878824

"This isn’t a dig at you mentioning it, OP, but I don’t think being autistic has anything to do with it - his behaviour is absolutely not okay and I don’t think management using his autism as a way to tell you not to say anything to him is right at all."

The autism is relevant as her company is preventing her from handling him as any other employee would be ad they are worried about breaking disability laws. She can't address his behaviour, she can't move him, he gets yo stalk her with no consequence just like the 2 previous times where he has been moved with no consequence to his hr file.[/quote]
That was exactly my point.

HoppingPavlova · 26/10/2021 07:05

pelosi sorry, how am I called out on not sympathising? I am clearly sympathetic that anyone had to deal with, as I specifically stated, a perverted cunt. I was in no way expressing any sort of joy or satisfaction that something be had to deal with such a perverted cuntConfused.

If you didn’t like the ad on that not every perverted cunt has Aspergers as standard - some are just perverted cunts because they are, that’s a fact. Doesn’t make me mad sympathetic to someone having to deal with a perverted cunt as it’s not anyone’s aim or want.