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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU worry that the next generation are not actually that "accepting"

466 replies

Bonsaibreaker · 20/10/2021 19:33

Long story short but chatting with 14 yo DD this evening about many subjects and a family members "views" came up. For background this family member in my view is racist and homophobic.
DD stated FM should be cancelled. Never allowed to speak, voice their opinion ever.

I pointed out to DD that freedom of speech means just that. We can all hold opinions others don't like but we are all free to voice, protest and gather regardless.
DD is of an age where discussion/debate is not an option apparently and if you are offended by another's views you just cancel them instead of debating or accepting their view as different to yours.

This worries me as instead of challenging different opinions the next generation are just silencing them.

YANBU = yes we are growing an intolerant society

YABU = They deserve to be cancelled

OP posts:
Cornettoninja · 20/10/2021 19:37

I think things are at a weird point of resetting, largely (imho) due to the internet and the ease of communication and being able to find people to agree with and validate almost any option.

I also think that we’ve perhaps put too much emphasis on the notion that everyone’s opinion has the same value regardless of what it’s based on and no one should have to feel bad because of someone else’s opinion.

It’s a weird time in all honesty.

Bringham · 20/10/2021 19:38

You agree they are racist and homophobic though? Do you think DC should just listen to their beliefs?

The right to freedom of speech doesnr cover hate speech

ThirdElephant · 20/10/2021 19:38

I think wisdom comes with age and they'll see the harm of censorship as they age.

Ask her who gets to decide what views she should be allowed to hear.

TheKeatingFive · 20/10/2021 19:41

Well 'cancelling' and silencing people is never the answer, so for that reason YANBU

ThirdElephant · 20/10/2021 19:41

@Bringham

You agree they are racist and homophobic though? Do you think DC should just listen to their beliefs?

The right to freedom of speech doesnr cover hate speech

Problem with no-platforming is that it creates an undercurrent where people hold views that aren't expressed and therefore aren't challenged. These then come out in a big, and often damaging, way down the line.
tiggerwhocamefortea · 20/10/2021 19:41

YANBU

seems the younger generation are equal parts scared of and offended by debate or views that whilst not illegal are not necessarily held by the majority

There is an ease of communication these days but digital communication not face to face** it's when faced with those with opposing and unpopular views they find it easiest just to cancel them rather than engage

Original poster
Bonsaibreaker · 20/10/2021 19:43

You agree they are racist and homophobic though? Do you think DC should just listen to their beliefs?

Sorry if I came across badly and did not explainmy position.
No.
I want DD to challenge them.
I want them to discuss and debate both points of view. I want DD to be able to debate why racisim and homophobia are wrong.
What I dont want is for DD to say that FM should be silenced, not challenged and just put in a draw so they can pretend it's not happening.

OP posts:
Freddiefox · 20/10/2021 19:43

I think it depends on where the person is voicing their opinions.

If you are sexist, you are not welcome to make sexist comments in my home.

I have to hear them outside my home, but it’s gets tiresome challenging views all the time.

If they are openly sexist, homophobic or racists why should she have to debate with them. Why give the air time.

LifesABotch · 20/10/2021 19:44

YANBU

twilightcafe · 20/10/2021 19:45

What/who is FM?

berryhead2013 · 20/10/2021 19:46

@twilightcafe I need to know this too

Freddiefox · 20/10/2021 19:47

@twilightcafe

What/who is FM?
Family member I think
Original poster
Bonsaibreaker · 20/10/2021 19:48

What/who is FM?

Sorry FM is family member.

OP posts:
SachaStark2 · 20/10/2021 19:51

But technically, what the FM is expressing is actually hate speech, if it’s motivated by racism and homophobia. Under the guise of freedom of speech.

TractorAndHeadphones · 20/10/2021 19:51

@Bonsaibreaker

Long story short but chatting with 14 yo DD this evening about many subjects and a family members "views" came up. For background this family member in my view is racist and homophobic. DD stated FM should be cancelled. Never allowed to speak, voice their opinion ever.

I pointed out to DD that freedom of speech means just that. We can all hold opinions others don't like but we are all free to voice, protest and gather regardless.
DD is of an age where discussion/debate is not an option apparently and if you are offended by another's views you just cancel them instead of debating or accepting their view as different to yours.

This worries me as instead of challenging different opinions the next generation are just silencing them.

YANBU = yes we are growing an intolerant society

YABU = They deserve to be cancelled

YANBU, Cancel culture is even spreading to universities and academics.
3scape · 20/10/2021 19:51

The 14 year old doesn't speak for all of them though. I know quite a few that are prepared to engage in debate rather than "cancel".
But anyone talking homophobic, racist crap, well they just don't have a point do they? There's no excuse based on age. No justification for abusing people on the basis of their make up

VillKrill · 20/10/2021 19:52

YANBU. The whole idea of “cancelling” people you don’t agree with is ridiculous of course, and inherently childish; I think a lot of young people for whom this is an acceptable reaction now will grow out of it sooner or later when they’ve lived a little more and realised how dangerous authoritarianism actually is.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 20/10/2021 19:53

I learned a hard lesson after the Brexit referendum. I was born in the early 1960s. Through my lifetime I genuinely thought the number of people with racist views was falling like a stone, because in the lefty liberal circles I move in nobody said these things. Then, after June 2016, the number of people expressing racist views quite openly rocketed. I realise now they never stopped thinking those things. They had just felt unable to say them openly. Brexit emboldened them to think it was fine now, they could say anything and there would be no consequences.

We had early warning of this in that incident with Gordon Brown and the woman who tried to talk to him about immigration. She wasn't a racist, she had legitimate concerns, but he pigeonholed her as a racist and fobbed her off. Refusing to talk to people about certain things doesn't mean they stop having those concerns. It means an opportunity to exchange information and views is lost and the person written off as a bigot is left feeling slighted. No wonder the far right was able to win so many people over.

Sciurus83 · 20/10/2021 19:54

Not when it comes to racism and homophobia, no we don't need to tolerate those views and hold space for them any more they are not tolerable in a civilised society. I disagree with you, why should DD or anyone, especially those affected, have to put in the emotional energy to debating the abhorrent. At some point it is ok to say NO, this is not acceptable. Racism and homophobia are the point at which now I am completely fine with that. You debate them if you feel that way, but you can't make someone else engage with abhorrent and upsetting views, they don't need to be tolerated.

SachaStark2 · 20/10/2021 19:55

A teenage student of mine expressed their viewpoint quite well, I thought, with regards to hate speech a few months back. They said, “My existence is not a topic that is up for debate, and I won’t engage with somebody who thinks it is.”

Which is fair enough, I think.

The trouble is, OP, that you’re conflating cancel culture with hate speech: of course the former isn’t okay, but neither does freedom of speech protect the latter. Rightly.

AnneLovesGilbert · 20/10/2021 19:56

Your daughter needs to be challenged on her views that opinions which diverge from her own can be ignored and that people should be cut off for having different views.

You should also be challenging offensive comments made in her presence.

It’s definitely a problem but it’s not got all of them yet.

My DSC are a bit younger but not much and they love a proper debate, are better at listening than a lot of adults I know, and are willing to disagree politely, go away and think about complicated topics and even, occasionally, change their minds.

Long may it last.

Original poster
Bonsaibreaker · 20/10/2021 19:57

But technically, what the FM is expressing is actually hate speech, if it’s motivated by racism and homophobia. Under the guise of freedom of speech.

No its not.
They do not cause harm or distress to others it is a personal opinion.
While I disagree with them and debate it endlessly I cannot control their thoughts nor would I want to.

Instead I point out where they are wrong. I use facts and data to shoot their arguments down.

There are nearly 8 billion people on earth. They are from many different cultures, religions who decides who's opinions are wrong and who's are right?

OP posts:
TractorAndHeadphones · 20/10/2021 19:58

@Freddiefox

I think it depends on where the person is voicing their opinions.

If you are sexist, you are not welcome to make sexist comments in my home.

I have to hear them outside my home, but it’s gets tiresome challenging views all the time.

If they are openly sexist, homophobic or racists why should she have to debate with them. Why give the air time.

But who has the authority to decide whether something is racist, homophobic or sexist? If someone say something like 'girls are bad at maths' or 'too many foreigners have ruined the country' fair enough, every can agree.

However in modern times anything and everything (if you follow activists and the like on Twitter) counts as some sort of 'phobic'. For example the huge fuss made around 'microagressions', where questions like 'where are you from' are considered insulting (according to a work diversity training).

Furthermore cancel culture has been used by the trans lobby to shut down very real questions about the erosion of women's right!

So yes, while people with clearly whatever-ist views shouldn't be entertained - it should be in the form of people speaking OUT against them, to their faces. Not just deleting their views, because that leads down a slippery slope.

SachaStark2 · 20/10/2021 19:59

Racism and homophobia isn’t somebody’s “personal opinion” Hmm

TractorAndHeadphones · 20/10/2021 19:59

@Bonsaibreaker

But technically, what the FM is expressing is actually hate speech, if it’s motivated by racism and homophobia. Under the guise of freedom of speech.

No its not.
They do not cause harm or distress to others it is a personal opinion.
While I disagree with them and debate it endlessly I cannot control their thoughts nor would I want to.

Instead I point out where they are wrong. I use facts and data to shoot their arguments down.

There are nearly 8 billion people on earth. They are from many different cultures, religions who decides who's opinions are wrong and who's are right?

Exactly. Nobody has the authority to cancel people.