AIBU worry that the next generation are not actually that "accepting"

[Bonsaibreaker]

Long story short but chatting with 14 yo DD this evening about many subjects and a family members "views" came up. For background this family member in my view is racist and homophobic.
DD stated FM should be cancelled. Never allowed to speak, voice their opinion ever.

I pointed out to DD that freedom of speech means just that. We can all hold opinions others don't like but we are all free to voice, protest and gather regardless.
DD is of an age where discussion/debate is not an option apparently and if you are offended by another's views you just cancel them instead of debating or accepting their view as different to yours.

This worries me as instead of challenging different opinions the next generation are just silencing them.

YANBU = yes we are growing an intolerant society

YABU = They deserve to be cancelled

I honestly don't think race or sexuality should be up for debate, they are things people can't change about themselves and shouldn't have to feel the need to defend or debate them. If someone choses not to accept people die to their race or sexuality then there will be no changing that persons mind.

This is not just kids ... our current so called "progressive" culture is preaching this and now we are seeing the result in a pure form. This is a wakeup call. "Be tolerant of everyone except those who don't agree with you". We are heading toward voluntary dictatorship, happily participating in extreme censorship and social exclusion of those who don't share the common narrative.

Due, not die!

@LuchiMangsho

And ‘where are you from?’ is not offensive but it’s offensive if I say ‘South London’ and you say ‘no really where are you from?’ And people who refuse to see this are the reason we need diversity training in the first place.

Most non white people are so used to microaggressions (nothing micro about something that makes me feel like shit btw), that we genuinely wouldn’t bat a lid.

No, in this case all the training said was that 'where are you from' was a microaggression. Not as a follow up, not with any context,

Only that question with those 4 words.

I am not white and the minority in my location (although globally we work with diverse teams). And the question is asked by everybody - firstly to determine which location people are working from, but also upon hearing an accent people are curious as to it's origin. The answer is usually a location and more often than not, a U.K /U.S location regardless of people's ethnicity.

But what happens when, for example, gender critical feminists who acknowledge the need for sex-based rights are deemed to be “oN tHe wRonG sIdE of hIsToRy” and duly cancelled? It’s a protected view but we’re still being silenced and threatened by authoritarian activists. Who gets to decide what’s allowed to be said and what isn’t? What if a load of e.g. misogynistic bullies take it upon themselves to do this? Is that the society we want?

I am happy to discuss my identity but not with those who don’t consider me their equal.
That’s the very definition of a racist.

(I am waiting for the drip feed where the OP now says that the family member is black and racist towards white people for the ‘gotcha’ moment)

I dont want DD to just ignore him.
I want her to say no.
I want her to challenge him.
I have and despite my arguments being ignored I want the next generation to challenge him too.

He never listened to me and he probably won't listen to her but I want him to know its not just my generation its every generation after me.
I want him to see he is outdated, wrong, a bigot.
It is probably a losing battle but we all start somewhere.

I had the same views at 14. It is a very black or white age. I don't think it says anything about the next generation, we all become wiser with experience.

It’s not the job of the minority to educate the majority.

It’s not your DD’s job to educate a bigoted old man.

Yabu and don't understand what tolerance is.

@LuchiMangsho the point I'm trying to make is that we all agree that racist/homophobic remarks shouldn't be engaged with. But who agrees as to what constitutes such a remark.
And this is related to 'cancel' which as PP mentioned is a witch hunt to destroy the lives of people who hold such views.

Again I refer you to how the trans lobby has perpetuated this against people who have raised very valid scientific questions, as well as spoken out against the erosion of women's rights.

My humiliations are not a ‘teachable moment’ for anyone.

This thread is truly depressing.

@Bonsaibreaker

I dont want DD to just ignore him. I want her to say no. I want her to challenge him. I have and despite my arguments being ignored I want the next generation to challenge him too.

He never listened to me and he probably won't listen to her but I want him to know its not just my generation its every generation after me.
I want him to see he is outdated, wrong, a bigot.
It is probably a losing battle but we all start somewhere.

OK OP now you're going a bit too far

I am waiting for the drip feed where the OP now says that the family member is black and racist towards white people for the ‘gotcha’

Sorry to disappoint. FM is white.

@Bonsaibreaker

You agree they are racist and homophobic though? Do you think DC should just listen to their beliefs?

Sorry if I came across badly and did not explainmy position.
No.
I want DD to challenge them.
I want them to discuss and debate both points of view. I want DD to be able to debate why racisim and homophobia are wrong.
What I dont want is for DD to say that FM should be silenced, not challenged and just put in a draw so they can pretend it's not happening.

I think it does need to be case by case.

No, people shouldn't simply be cancelled for expressing bigotry or views you don't like. On the other hand it is not your daughters job to educate an older member of the family, and I respect her right to want to have nothing to do with someone who she has a (rightful IMO) MASSIVE problem with.

I hate this whole cancel culture. I worry it's damaging as the loudest voices win.

However I do think it's fair enough to refuse to e agave in someone who is being homophonic or racist.

There's a difference in the 2.

I worry that personal responsibility is being irradiated. It's always "ban the use of" "ban the programme ....."

Why can't we teach responsibility? Just because phones are banned in school it doesn't mean kids learn internet safety. It just me as they don't do it between 8.30-3.30.
Banning certain programmes won't stop violence. Consequences instead of excuses will help. If parents let their children play age inappropriate games or watch age inappropriate tv that's their responsibility .

I find the worst people who shout about not cancelling voices are the ones who shout above everyone else. Most recently Piers Morgan has been a prime example of this.

I do think they are getting a LOT of reinforcement online to the idea of really despising people. That's what's different I think to my experience of being a rather zealous teen.

No-one would dare to say racist speech should be allowed. But no-one can define what racist speech is. Some people can find anything racist, (or homophobic or transphobic or blasphemous or sexist or disablist or ageist....)

That's the point. You see it on MN all the time as a microcosm. PPs make an observation and everyone, (some people) pounces. We all say things every single day that could be no-platformed by a different sort of bigot, That way lies persecution and some very real horrors.

I don’t want to enter into the trans debate because genuinely every thread on tolerance on MN comes down to that. But in this case the OP OPENLY admits that the elderly family member is bigoted. There is no actual debate about his bigotry.

This is why the Tory landslide was a surprise. So many shy tories who don’t feel able to express why they vote the way they do because there is little debate, more that they don’t much want to be called “scum” or whatever. I want to know who is racist and homophobic and whatever other thoughts people have so I know who to avoid having in my friendship group. Let them say it. I want to know who they are! And I don’t want them underground, I want them out in the open, having their toxic views taken apart politely by someone cleverer than them. Won’t be hard.

@KrispyKale
I think the point is that debate is usually very ineffective. In this situation for example. fm has to be willing to be non defensive, even when challenged by one of the children of the ffamily.

I'd bet lots of money that in this situation fm makes a racist comment, dc plucks up courage to say something. Fm will say its just a joke and ridicule dc for being too sensitive, if dc continues then they will be seen as picking a fight/ ruining family dinner/ being awkward. Fm won't be there for a debate, they won't be open for learning something new, they will be defensive as hell and shout about people being over sensitive

And surely entering into a debate means theat you are opening yourself up to allow someone to try and convince you their opinion is the correct one, for both sides. I don't want to listen to someone try to justify and convince me that racist or homophobic views are OK.

@KrispyKale

I do think they are getting a LOT of reinforcement online to the idea of really despising people. That's what's different I think to my experience of being a rather zealous teen.

Exactly - people's first reaction is to hurl hate at each other and be reductionist.

@Thatsplentyjack

I honestly don't think race or sexuality should be up for debate, they are things people can't change about themselves and shouldn't have to feel the need to defend or debate them. If someone choses not to accept people die to their race or sexuality then there will be no changing that persons mind.

It's vastly more nuanced than that.

I've talked an American around about Central America. He thought mass migration was an issue. A very simple bad thing. I spoke to him factually about American interventionism, trade issues, debt, war on drugs and many other issues meaning he then understood that migration was a symptom not a cause and that had the US behaved differently, Central Americans wouldn't have be forced to migrate. Also the very real benefits of migration to the US.

Frankly he was horrified some 'British girl' knew more than him.

I could have just said, "bigot, you hate all Hispanic people". And he would have learned nothing.

YANBU