Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU worry that the next generation are not actually that "accepting"

466 replies

Bonsaibreaker · 20/10/2021 19:33

Long story short but chatting with 14 yo DD this evening about many subjects and a family members "views" came up. For background this family member in my view is racist and homophobic.
DD stated FM should be cancelled. Never allowed to speak, voice their opinion ever.

I pointed out to DD that freedom of speech means just that. We can all hold opinions others don't like but we are all free to voice, protest and gather regardless.
DD is of an age where discussion/debate is not an option apparently and if you are offended by another's views you just cancel them instead of debating or accepting their view as different to yours.

This worries me as instead of challenging different opinions the next generation are just silencing them.

YANBU = yes we are growing an intolerant society

YABU = They deserve to be cancelled

OP posts:
daimbarsatemydogsbone · 20/10/2021 20:35

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g

I learned a hard lesson after the Brexit referendum. I was born in the early 1960s. Through my lifetime I genuinely thought the number of people with racist views was falling like a stone, because in the lefty liberal circles I move in nobody said these things. Then, after June 2016, the number of people expressing racist views quite openly rocketed. I realise now they never stopped thinking those things. They had just felt unable to say them openly. Brexit emboldened them to think it was fine now, they could say anything and there would be no consequences.

We had early warning of this in that incident with Gordon Brown and the woman who tried to talk to him about immigration. She wasn't a racist, she had legitimate concerns, but he pigeonholed her as a racist and fobbed her off. Refusing to talk to people about certain things doesn't mean they stop having those concerns. It means an opportunity to exchange information and views is lost and the person written off as a bigot is left feeling slighted. No wonder the far right was able to win so many people over.

Exactly this. There was a thread on Gordon Brown recently and a lot of posters just kept on posting “but that woman was a racist/bigot etc” on the flimsiest of evidence and Gordon’s say so. It is very worrying.
Original poster
Bonsaibreaker · 20/10/2021 20:36

Thatsplentyjack

Really? You're a black woman and your white family member is openly racist infront of you/to you and you still have contact with them?

Strangley yes.
He never uses derogatory language and is very loving towards my children but he always "others" me.
He will make comments about immigrants and "gangs" he means black gangs but he's racist but not white person racist if that makes sense?

OP posts:
Sneezecakesmama · 20/10/2021 20:37

Its scary that universities bar speakers with views they dislike. If we can't have open discussion there and debate why the speakers views are abhorrent then where?

Siameasy · 20/10/2021 20:38

@Bringham

You agree they are racist and homophobic though? Do you think DC should just listen to their beliefs?

The right to freedom of speech doesnr cover hate speech

But what is “hate speech”? Surely that is a subjective term.

Even whether something is racist or homophobic can be subjective.

For instance I can legally stand in my local high street with a placard saying “homosexuality is a sin” or “I’m against gay marriage”. Even if you thought that was “homophobic” I am legally allowed to express that view.

Part of growing up is understanding that there are few facts, many opinions.

LittleDandelionClock · 20/10/2021 20:38

@EeeByeGummieBear

Unfortunately not engaging in debate isn't just what younger people do. I have recently been 'cancelled' by two people in their 40s who I volunteer with. I expressed a different point of view and asked for further discussion. I was told I was missing the point and shut me down. Surely if I was missing the point we needed to discuss it further? I've never been in this situation before as I've always worked places were discussion was accepted or even encouraged.
Oooh, I am curious now. What did you say?
toconclude · 20/10/2021 20:39

She's 14. I used to hear this kind of thing from teens in the 70s,80s,90s and 00s.You're catastrophising.

Original poster
Bonsaibreaker · 20/10/2021 20:40

Silenceisgolden20

As I am trying to teach my DD differences of opinion are ok.

OP posts:
Bringham · 20/10/2021 20:41

@Siameasy
The situation here those is the OP is a black woman who has been debating her openly racist elderly white male relative for years with zero effect and now expects her 14 year old daughter to continue this on(even though it appears she wants nothing to do with him)

LowlandLucky · 20/10/2021 20:41

The cancel brigade are the most intolerant bullies but can't see how vile they are.

ejhhhhh · 20/10/2021 20:42

I agree with PPs who've suggested that refusing to tolerate racist/sexist/homophobic views is probably a better way of changing opinions than debating them. We don't tolerate lots of things that harm others, I don't see hate speech as being much different to driving whilst drunk for example. Lots of people of my father's generation used to drink and drive because they were mistakenly of the opinion that it was fine. Likewise my grandmother was openly racist. My dad stopped drinking and driving and my grandma stopped being racist in public not because anyone engaged in debate with them, but just because it was outright socially unacceptable. Some things we just don't need to debate. Tbh, I think the responsible thing to do, as a parent, is to stop seeing your racist and homophobic FM until they stop being racist and homophobic in your presence, and tell them why you've cut contact. That'll probably be more effective than debating with them.

RudestLittleMadam · 20/10/2021 20:42

The way I see it and what I teach my children is: we have freewill. We can say and do what we want to but there are repercussions if we say or do something bad. This works both ways. So for example, you don’t have to listen to other people's bigotry and they don’t have to listen to yours (if it is you that is the bigot). Works well enough for people you know like racist family members.

I don’t agree with cancelling people on social media or similar for their views alone unless they are inciting hatred (eg someone like Tommy Robinson). I prefer to know exactly who the racists/homophobes/misogynists are so I can choose to listen to them or not.

Briony123 · 20/10/2021 20:42

Very few people ever actually listen to random family members they disagree with. The ranting racist grandparent would always just be ignored, surely that's "cancelling" them, they just never realised it?

Heiferr · 20/10/2021 20:43

Why isn’t her lack of contact with him enough to teach him that his views are not acceptable to her! Why if the only way for her to communicate her disgust with his views be to debate with him.

This isn’t done uni debating club, this is her home or family. Why should she teach him. Let him learn from her absence.
Silence speaks volumes to.

1000% this.

@Bonsaibreaker it seems as if you are using your daughters stance on this to prove your own point about cancel culture. You need to separate the two. The fact that she has a strong enough opinion about said family member tells you that she's able to make a decision about who she wants to invest her time interacting with. In your position, I'd back her rather than banging the cancel culture drum.

Bringham · 20/10/2021 20:43

@Bonsaibreaker

Silenceisgolden20

As I am trying to teach my DD differences of opinion are ok.

If if those opinions are that her/her mothers skin colour presumably makes them inferior? That should be equally considered as the belief your family is equal to all other families?
Silenceisgolden20 · 20/10/2021 20:43

Racism is not difference of opinion. That is completely minimising it. It is hurtful, damaging and it destroys people's lives.

I'm bowing out, I think silence is better this as I will only get cross at this thread and go round in circles.

Tittyfilarious81 · 20/10/2021 20:43

I hate cancel culture it teaches the next generation nothing at all about how to handle other people with different views . I've told my 15 year old if you don't like what someone says to you then go ahead and have an alternative opinion and if you don't agree with each other so be it.

Original poster
Bonsaibreaker · 20/10/2021 20:45

Bringham
and now expects her 14 year old daughter to continue this on(even though it appears she wants nothing to do with him)

Actually no.
I expecty daughter to challenge things she feels passionate about.
I dont care if she challenges fox hunting or global warming. I just want her to challenge not cancel.

Where would be be if we all gave up at the first hurdle?

OP posts:
Heiferr · 20/10/2021 20:46

This thread proves exactly why we still have such an issue with racism. So many people categorising racism as a "difference of opinion". If that is what is being perpetuated in homes, I worry more about that than I ever would about cancel culture.

Original poster
Bonsaibreaker · 20/10/2021 20:47

Why isn’t her lack of contact with him enough to teach him that his views are not acceptable to her! Why if the only way for her to communicate her disgust with his views be to debate with him.

Nowhere have I said she is lack of contact. You made that up.

OP posts:
DandyHighwayWoman · 20/10/2021 20:47

I detest the term ‘cancelled’

MeAndDebbieMcGee · 20/10/2021 20:47

The concept of hate speech and particularly hate speech being a criminal offence is relatively new and we're still getting to grips with it. Time will tell if it's useful overall or not to categorise communication in this way. I tend to think not, on the whole, but a lot of people disagree with me.

Thatsplentyjack · 20/10/2021 20:47

Here you go @Siameasy. I didn't actually use the term hate speech, but a pp (not sure if it was you) said some people needed to look up the definition, because it doesn't mean what a lot of people think, yet it does mean what I thought it ment. Just thought I better double check.

*hate speech

noun

abusive or threatening speech or writing that expresses prejudice against a particular group, especially on the basis of race, religion, or sexual orientation.

"we don't tolerate any form of hate speech*

I don't think it is always subjective. Some opinions are just blatant hate speech.

Bringham · 20/10/2021 20:48

@Bonsaibreaker

Bringham and now expects her 14 year old daughter to continue this on(even though it appears she wants nothing to do with him)

Actually no.
I expecty daughter to challenge things she feels passionate about.
I dont care if she challenges fox hunting or global warming. I just want her to challenge not cancel.

Where would be be if we all gave up at the first hurdle?

It's not the first hurdle though is it? She's watched her mother debate this man for years and get no where. She's not left at the first sign if trouble, she's watched this man spout his views on her, her family and why they aren't equal for years.

You've allowed this in the guise of teaching her not to walk away, you've exposed her to this for years by your own admission. Its okay to not engage with someone who is being actively hurtful to her

Thatsplentyjack · 20/10/2021 20:48

And actually if you were standing in the middle of a town center shouting "I hate black people", I think you may be taken away by police. I could be wrong though.

Original poster
Bonsaibreaker · 20/10/2021 20:51

Racism is not difference of opinion. That is completely minimising it. It is hurtful, damaging and it destroys people's lives.

Nobody is minimising it ffs.

7 billion people on the planet some of them are racist. Should they be? Of course not but that doesn't mean racisim doesn't exist!
Some people are misogynistic
Some are sexist.
Some are homophobic
We need to challenge those views in order to change them instead of pretending 7 billion people all think the same way. That's just stupid.

OP posts:
Swipe left for the next trending thread