WWYD- 13 YO daughter and message I "shouldn't have read"

[over2021]

DD is 13 (Y9). Tomorrow her and some friends have arranged something after school that starts at 7pm. DD asked if her friends could come to ours after school before the event starts which is very local to us (not so much for them). I agreed then realised I was working late so said to DD they would need to order pizzas etc as I wouldn't be in- DH would be home from 6ish.

On reflection, I didn't want them walking to event - about 20 minute walk away- in the dark. DH doesn't have a big enough car to take them. So, I've changed my work plans so I could be home. I told DD and she said "a few girls wanted to go to the park first"- I was clear she was not to go to the park in the dark (the park is a wooded area with a pond etc not a playground).

Last night DD was being weird with her phone and when she went to bed I checked her messages. One in their group chat said "guys, my mum is such a buzz kill. She's coming home now so she can drive us but I've told her to drop us at half six so we can still go to the park".

I am fuming at her. I want to ground her and say not only can her friends not come but she's also not going to the event as clearly I can't trust her. DH says I need to back off and she's behaving like a normal teenager plus I shouldn't have read her messages but that I should drop them at the door and watch them go in.

WWYD!?

I'm in two minds about this one. When I was 14 my friends refused to let me walk a mile up the road from school to the cinema on a half day with my friends claiming it was unsafe. There were 8 of us and the whole thing was totally bonkers, but made worse when a friend's mum tried to reason with my mother and I got an earful from my mum for the 'insult to her authority' or whatever similar wording she used. I also wasn't allowed to drink tea until I was 14 because of the caffeine and my parents enforced a strict 7.30pm bedtime. We lived rurally too so I don't think I went to the park with friends after dark until I was perhaps 17. They never looked through my phone though, and I think doing so undermines trust past a certain age (11/12ish, maybe slightly older but not much).

By the same token, 13 is extremely young and I totally understand the misgivings about a dark, wooded park. But too many rules will just make her switch off. I'd err on the side of dropping her off and then explain it's explicitly the park that's the issue and she's fine to go to the cinema, well-lit areas etc with friends. Perhaps explain that you wouldn't feel comfortable yourself being in the dark in a park. Don't get affected by the buzzkill criticism; just emphasise it's all about safety (if the worst she will say is that you're a buzzkill in a group chat and be overtly awkward about it to the extent you go through her phone, she's probably not going to get up to much, she sounds reasonably conscientious).

Maybe have a longer discussion about personal safety another time. Looking back my parents actually were really good at saying, "it's not you, it's other people" on safety issues. A lot of where they fell down was the subsequent sneering things like "so you think there's safety in numbers, do you?" re: walking in a group, which undermined them. But they were also strict because my mum's younger sisters, at 14-15, were absolute nightmares who weren't much older than me and they wanted very much for me to not be like that.

FWIW I am not a parent of a teenager, but I like to think it wasn't so long ago that I was one... even though it's stretching ever further away.

I would talk to her, ask why she thinks you're worried, explain your concerns and...honestly..
I'd probably put the ball back in her court to decide whether she still wants to do the park. Shes fighting for independence so id let her make this decision.

I would talk to her. Be honest. Say you read the messages because you were worried and that hanging out in the park in the dark is not safe - do say exactly why. Surely there is a coffee shop or something as an alternative? Starbucks is usually open until about 7.30 or 8pm near me. Unless you are in a very small town, there must be somewhere safer they can go. Obviously there will be no drinking in a coffee shop so you might want to be asking her why that won't do and pointing out that you too have been a teenager.

Alternatively, just ask her what she is planning to do between 6.30 and the event starting. If she lies then you need to do something about this (probably cancel event and having friends over and a serious chat about lying and consequences and danger in the dark).

I have a fifteen year old in Y10. It is a condition of her having a smartphone as opposed to a Nokia brick that I can check her phone. I rarely do so now but did quite a lot when she was 11/12/13 because unfortunately children this age are still very much children and not necessarily able to fully understand the potential consequences of their actions. She knew this and understood it was a condition. I'd only do it now if I was seriously worried about her as she has proven herself sensible and honest over a number of years.

@TheReluctantPhoenix

It is for adults to help children achieve long term success and happiness, not to indulge them in every whim.

Has anyone advocated indulging their every whim? This is a straw man.

I would ask what really is going on at the park and engage the reaction.
I don’t think I’d let my teen go to the event anymore tbh, but I’m not a parent to a teen yet and although I understand they have to find their feet, trust is earned and I wouldn’t be letting a 13year old with no self awareness of safety out on their own with their mates.
If it’s alcohol fuelled and there’s open water that’s a recipe for disaster.

Has anyone advocated indulging their every whim? This is a straw man.

There are a lot of ‘once they are in their teens you have to let them do what they want or they rebel’ comments.

Interestingly if you talk about leaving a 10 year old in the house for an hour while you pop to the supermarket many of the same people are horrified.

Freedom is a gradual thing and for most sensible people is built on trust and age appropriate controls. 13 is incredibly young still.

Even more worryingly in this situation for me is that her mates are clearly intending to tell their parents they are at her house before the event when this isn’t true. I wouldn’t be complicit in that either and would be really cross at my daughter putting me into that position.

Thankfully her friends parents seem to have similar standards and as a result she considers her level of freedom to be normal.

Im with dh. And can understand why your dd is disappointed. Why can't a bunch of 13yo walk 20 minutes at 6.30? Its not like they are 7. Your better of teaching her about being safe and what to do in an emergency than to shelter her and lock her in a golden tower really...

But your dd is in the wrong about lying for sure. But at 13? Come on. Indeed what a buzz kill if your mum comes home to chaperone...

Out of interest and not being snarky, to people saying they read the children's messages as a matter of course, if they had diaries, would you read those too to make sure you know what's going on in their lives?

I don't get it why the walk is so dangerous TBH.

But if you really want to be paranoid about it all, there's nothing to stop them waving and walking into an event, waiting a minute, and walking right back out to do whatever they want.

Walking in a group at 6:30 for 20 mins should be fine at 13 surely? Just get her to use life 360 so you can see where she is.

Why would they need you to drop them off?

Lying is bad and you need to speak to her about safety, what to do when there are dodgey guys etc.

@WalkingOnTheCracks. That sounds like a fun wedding speech.

@WalkingOnTheCracks,

There are so many threads about teens, where parents advocate treating them virtually as adults whereas, at the same time, having virtually zero expectations of them.

And then you always get the line that you will ‘lose them’ if you are too strict.

As I said, love coupled with firm boundaries (which does mean enforcing them with sanctions) and good dialogue is the way to have a harmonious home and also prepare teens for adult life.

A 13 year old going out to a social event starting at 7PM on a school night would be a bit of a no no from me (barring exceptional circumstances, like a once a term special occasion). When will she sleep? What state will she be in for school on Friday?

And yes, before I hear the anecdotes, a few teens need less sleep and a few are good at self-policing, and need little adult guidance.

For the vast majority, though, ‘relaxed ‘ parenting leads to exhausted children who do not prioritise learning and an (unrealistic) expectation that the school will do the heavy lifting with regard to behaviour.

(I know the above view is not popular on MN, but does accord with what I see).

A 13 year old going out to a social event starting at 7PM on a school night would be a bit of a no no from me (barring exceptional circumstances, like a once a term special occasion). When will she sleep? What state will she be in for school on Friday?

Moot point because it's half term.

[quote madisonbridges]@WalkingOnTheCracks. That sounds like a fun wedding speech.[/quote]
It was a straight-line set-up for a story about my son’s admirably eccentric approach to argument. Got a lot of laughs.

[quote TheReluctantPhoenix]@WalkingOnTheCracks,

There are so many threads about teens, where parents advocate treating them virtually as adults whereas, at the same time, having virtually zero expectations of them.

And then you always get the line that you will ‘lose them’ if you are too strict.

As I said, love coupled with firm boundaries (which does mean enforcing them with sanctions) and good dialogue is the way to have a harmonious home and also prepare teens for adult life.

A 13 year old going out to a social event starting at 7PM on a school night would be a bit of a no no from me (barring exceptional circumstances, like a once a term special occasion). When will she sleep? What state will she be in for school on Friday?

And yes, before I hear the anecdotes, a few teens need less sleep and a few are good at self-policing, and need little adult guidance.

For the vast majority, though, ‘relaxed ‘ parenting leads to exhausted children who do not prioritise learning and an (unrealistic) expectation that the school will do the heavy lifting with regard to behaviour.

(I know the above view is not popular on MN, but does accord with what I see).[/quote]
There’s nothing ‘relaxed’ about what I’m suggesting, with or without the ironic quotes. In fact, none of the circumstances you criticise are what I’m suggesting.

We’ll agree to differ, perhaps.

@TheReluctantPhoenix it depends what time it finishes TBH. If it’s only a couple of hours then why not if homework is done? This generation have missed out on so much socialising. I bring my dc up to think that school IS important but so are other things. Extra curricular activities, being with friends and having fun are vital too for balance and good mental health. My dd does a lot of dance (8 hours/week), some nights she not home till 8.30pm. And she’s in Year 10 now. She manages fine, homework is done and school reports are good.

And I agree being too strict doesn’t work either.

@WitchyNameChange

A 13 year old going out to a social event starting at 7PM on a school night would be a bit of a no no from me (barring exceptional circumstances, like a once a term special occasion). When will she sleep? What state will she be in for school on Friday?

Moot point because it's half term.

@WitchyNameChange clearly not for them as she mentions twice in the first 2 sentences of the OP that this is happening after school!

being too strict doesn’t work either

It doesn’t. But 13 year olds are still very young. For me it’s about trust, if she shows she can’t be trusted then the consequence is less freedom. This situation would be a massive trust issue for me.

Mine is frequently out till 9ish a couple of times a week at her sports club, I think 10 o clock bed time on a school night is fine personally.

clearly not for them as she mentions twice in the first 2 sentences of the OP that this is happening after school!

Good point, I'd just read it to mean not during the day as we sometimes say that in our house. My secondary school DC are on half term, I mistakenly thought OPs would be too.

@madisonbridges

Out of interest and not being snarky, to people saying they read the children's messages as a matter of course, if they had diaries, would you read those too to make sure you know what's going on in their lives?

Kids don't get groomed or sent obscene images through their diaries. They don't get bullied or kept up all night by them either.

Oh boy. Reading this sort of thing and the overreaction by so many of you makes me realise why my 19yo daughter says her friends all thought I was a great parent

Ah bless. You were a pushover you mean.

I have a 14.5 year old dd and I don’t check her phone

I honestly think this is neglectful. How can you possibly be looking out for her safety if you don't even bother to check?

I don’t think you are neglectful to respect a teenager’s privacy if there is no cause for concern.

Ultimately, you cannot keep anyone 100% safe and you will never be able to. So, the best thing is giving them the tools to protect themselves.

Of course, reserving the right to check if there is a concern is a good thing.