WWYD- 13 YO daughter and message I "shouldn't have read"

[over2021]

DD is 13 (Y9). Tomorrow her and some friends have arranged something after school that starts at 7pm. DD asked if her friends could come to ours after school before the event starts which is very local to us (not so much for them). I agreed then realised I was working late so said to DD they would need to order pizzas etc as I wouldn't be in- DH would be home from 6ish.

On reflection, I didn't want them walking to event - about 20 minute walk away- in the dark. DH doesn't have a big enough car to take them. So, I've changed my work plans so I could be home. I told DD and she said "a few girls wanted to go to the park first"- I was clear she was not to go to the park in the dark (the park is a wooded area with a pond etc not a playground).

Last night DD was being weird with her phone and when she went to bed I checked her messages. One in their group chat said "guys, my mum is such a buzz kill. She's coming home now so she can drive us but I've told her to drop us at half six so we can still go to the park".

I am fuming at her. I want to ground her and say not only can her friends not come but she's also not going to the event as clearly I can't trust her. DH says I need to back off and she's behaving like a normal teenager plus I shouldn't have read her messages but that I should drop them at the door and watch them go in.

WWYD!?

She wouldn't be going anywhere if it wasy call. She wouldn:t have a phone either.

@CherryBlossomWinter

Being too liberal just means not being a parent. They are 13, and whilst it is normal to push for more, it doesn’t mean they get it! So your instincts are right. Plenty of time to do what they want, maturity should come first and doesn’t come from being silly and lying.

This all hangs on what's meant by 'too'. What it usually means is 'more than me'

But there's an implicit idea here that parenting is measured on a sort of analog scale that goes from 'permissive' to 'strict', and 'liberal' is somewhere along that line.

That's not the case. Parenting is much more complex than that. There's a lot more going on. How do we know that's true? Because we all know kids whose behaviour is all over the shop, despite having 'strict' parents, just as we all know reasonable, sensible, responsible kids whose parents appear to be 'liberal' as one can imagine.

So it's not the strictness or liberalness that's doing it.

I think in some circumstances it's ok to check the phone, and tell them that's part of the deal when you gave them the phone. But be careful, isn't it like reading their diary back in they day? They will write all sorts of crap , as teenagers do. Doesn't mean it will happen. Kids that age show off, they want to fit in. Even the best parents are embarrassing and crap, it's a phase to not want to be seen with you

@CherryBlossomWinter

Being too liberal just means not being a parent. They are 13, and whilst it is normal to push for more, it doesn’t mean they get it! So your instincts are right. Plenty of time to do what they want, maturity should come first and doesn’t come from being silly and lying.

Being silly is part of growing up. You don't go from being a child to a responsible adult overnight. There is an awkward teenager stage. Unless all the parents writing on here were perfect teen agers? You need her to be able to talk to you when things get tough or she's in danger, not scared of you.

I was fairly feral at 13 and nothing innocent ever happened in a park! I would imagine they're meeting up with boys, or having a swift drink before whatever the event is (based on my experience).

Someone wise on MN once told me to treat my teenagers like fairly boring lodgers, and the tactic has worked well for me (they're 21 and 23 now and lovely!)... no point you losing your rag with her - you ARE a buzzkill, she's 13 and you're her mother But I'd not hesitate to talk to her about her safety and make no apology that your job is to keep her safe as best you can. Agree with others saying to offer her the options of drop off at the event at 7 or stay in...

Yep she is only 13 yanbu. Definitely cancel and ground her.

@fallfallfall

Meeting up to drink/smoke prior to the event is the first thing that comes to mind. Somethings going on in the park. If they want to sit about and chat they could do that at yours…that conniving behavior is annoying and leads to trouble trusting.

Totally this!

Serious conversation needed and you’re definitely not being unreasonable to look at her phone. I’m on the other side of teens now and it can be so stressful at times.

@Qwertyyui

I would act like I had not seen it and then find reasons to be later to drop her off on time. Just finishing the washing up. Oh the washing needs hung up. Oh I need a wee before I leave. Then be 'accidently late' and act surprised that she is worried about not being there half an hour early.

I would do this too, I wouldn't react to messages I am not supposed to have seen on her phone, it will only encourage her to keep things from you.

I have 2 teen DDs and would take this approach of dropping them accidentally late.

I would (and have) had the chat about womens safety in a more relaxed atmosphere later, not in retaliation to this. She will be more open to it then, rather than thinking you are just exaggerating about it all to stop her going out.

Personally, I think 13 is old enough to walk somewhere with friends.

I would let them go to the park together. But I'd be at that building at 7pm and if I didn't see them entering, I'd be at the park chasing them all home.

Well, I may be old fashioned, but I generally think school nights are for homework, dinner and bed (unless it is already her half term).

In any event, she should be grateful that you are letting her go at all.

Hmm...
I would delay leaving the house as a PP suggested so that they arrive at the venue at 1900hrs. I would also likely be secretly amused at the teeth gnashing and eye rolling this would inevitably cause. That should solve the most pressing issue.

Then I would speak to her after the event. I've always been open with DS and explained my reasons for a decision, however unpopular. It's easy to say that "if" something happened and you didn't know where she was then you would not be in a position to help her.

We also instigated a code word that meant one of us would go wherever we were needed on a rescue mission with no questions asked. We felt that it was important that if DS or a friend were ever in as position where they didn't feel safe then he could call for help and we would go. Speaking to DS as an older teen, he has admitted that it was a big comfort to know he always had backup even if he had fucked up.

I don't fully understand the lie. The girls originally planned to walk to the 7PM event, so going past the park would have seemed normal to them and no reason to mention it. Your plans changed so you'd be home to drive them. DD said the girls wanted to go to the park before the event. Did you discuss why she couldn't go to the park and she agreed, then sent that text that she'd asked you to drop them at half six and they'd still go to the park? Had she made some other excuse for you to drop them early and you agreed? If that's the case then I agree she lied to you and it's a problem. Otherwise it doesn't make sense.

Also agree with PPs that expectations about her phone are key. I thought when you said she'd left it when she went to bed that there was an understanding that you might check some things, but it seems your husband doesn't agree with that? Make sure, if you're not already, that everyone is in agreement on this. Of course you have the "right" (and many would say the responsibility) to check, but she also has the right to know that. If she does, I'd tell her you read the message and ask her to explain why she still plans to go to the park when she agreed not to. If not, you'll have to find another way. You can't argue that she has broken your trust if you've also broken hers.

Whether or not it's reasonable or safe for her to go to the park or walk around town after dark completely depends where you live; you'll be a better judge of that than anyone here. But that's no longer the immediate issue; it's now the (possible) lying. I'd say it IS "normal" teenage behaviour, but it's also normal parent behaviour to keep children safe and teach them not to lie.

@TheReluctantPhoenix

Well, I may be old fashioned, but I generally think school nights are for homework, dinner and bed (unless it is already her half term).

In any event, she should be grateful that you are letting her go at all.

Did/do your kids not go to clubs eg brownies/scouts? Classes for sport/dance? Very often school night activities.

@TimeForTeaAndG,

They go to various sport-related events, latest one finishes at 7pm (oldest child 13 though).

Of course, there might be the odd exception, but they need to be up 7AM, and so need to be ready to sleep 10pm latest.

@DeepaBeesKit

Yep she is only 13 yanbu. Definitely cancel and ground her.

Way ott, she hasn't actually done anything but talk about it. Talk to her. Keep boundaries , keep her safe, but punishing is a sure way for her to find bigger things to push you with.

I don't honestly think there is such a thing as too liberal. As a pp said, liberal isn't on a line between strict and permissive. And being a parent who respects their child as a human being doesn't mean being permissive.

And there's a difference between being liberal and being a "cool mum" There were times I was very strict with both my kids, but I never ever used "because I said so" as a reason for being that strict. If I can't articulate my argument for or against something in a way a teenager can accept (however reluctantly) then it probs isn't a great argument.

Keeping my kids safe is a responsibility I have to them, not a right I have by virtue of being their parent.

My 19yo is living in London atm. I was tweeting angrily about VAWG post the Everard case a couple of weeks ago, talking about the need to address male violence rather than curtail woman's movements.

And without mentioning it, or me asking, for the next two nights she messaged me to say goodnight, and then we spoke, and she told me that her two male housemates and her boyfriend who lives nearby never let her or her female housemate walk home alone after dark (they are all at same uni so socialise together). And I told her that I'd noticed the messages, and she told me that she figured it was an easy way to make me feel a bit less afraid about her.

PP's might tell me that that's luck. I think its the inevitable consequence of bringing up your kids with respect and talking to them about issues and feelings.

There were times I was very strict with both my kids, but I never ever used "because I said so" as a reason for being that strict. If I can't articulate my argument for or against something in a way a teenager can accept (however reluctantly) then it probs isn't a great argument.

^^ THIS.

I too refused to say this to my own DCs, having suffered the injustice of it during my own childhood and teenage years. Ditto the phrases "Don't answer back" or "Don't contradict" - both of which were frequently employed to end an argument that the adult was on the point of losing.

@ProfessionalWeirdo,

Has anyone advocated saying ‘because I say so’ as an argument? I can’t see it. This is a total straw man.

I believe firmly that adults are in charge of their own home and teens are given age appropriate responsibilities. However, I would always explain every decision and listen to arguments. Does not mean I would change it.

It is for adults to help children achieve long term success and happiness, not to indulge them in every whim.

Ok she doesn’t want you to ruin their plans - so ignore any terms she’s used about you.

I’d make her a drink (hot chocolate or something) and I’d talk through trust and why you want to know why she is - with mine she said she was going to a friends house and then imagine my surprise when I bumped into her whilst I was shopping in a different town - she brazened it out I didn’t take her down in front of her friends. We had a chat. I don’t object to you going to the shops but imagine their was a problem with your sibling / my work etc and we popped around to x house and you weren’t there etc she got it. Even if plans change she texts to let me know.

So start by saying …. About the park -cemetery - whatever - talk about safety and sometimes if we are going to do something we’ve been asked not - so that if something happens we don’t have to be scared of saying if something happened we aren’t happy with. Etc

Oh yes stick to logic eg she says I will use a torch and not go near the pond talk about older teenagers and peer pressure - don’t use murder and rape as reasons - but explain about keeping each other safe etc ultimately you don’t want her to close down communicating

@MrsMcGarry

There were times I was very strict with both my kids, but I never ever used "because I said so" as a reason for being that strict. If I can't articulate my argument for or against something in a way a teenager can accept (however reluctantly) then it probs isn't a great argument.

I recently gave a father-of-the-groom speech at my son’s wedding, and I said exactly this.

I think that ‘because I say so’ is lazy parenting. Because you must be ‘saying so’ for a reason, and you ought to put the effort into articulating what that reason is. You’d have to do it for anyone else. Why not for someone you love?

And sometimes, when you do that, you discover that your reason isn’t actually very good. In which case you might have to back down. Which makes your argument much stronger - and in my experience much more readily accepted - when your reason for being strict is a good one.

But that’s all a lot more like hard work than ‘because I say so’,

@Cocomarine

I tell her that I know I’m a buzz kill pita, but that it’s my job to look out for her. It usually helps mine when I remind her that this sort of no isn’t me being an overbearing parent, but the world not being safe. Is there an alternative that you can work out between you? Not the park but someone else, safer, that they could still go to?

I'm exactly the same, not that fussed if I'm a buzz kill, they hate me or I'm the worst mum EVER (said in typical Kevin and Perry style) !
I told my kids that I'm legally responsible
For their safety and well-being till they are 18 and that includes criminal behaviour also, so if I get one wiff of anything I deem dangerous/suspicious then I will be all over them, checking phones and bedrooms. In all honesty I've never had to but I just reserve the right.

I wouldn’t bring up the messages at this point. It won’t help as it will become all about ‘you read my phone’ instead of the bigger issue of her lying to you and also what is happening at the park.

I’d either do the ‘delay’ thing and take her later, or I’d take her at 6:30 but then turn up at the park.

If she’s caught in the act at the park, I wouldn’t humiliate her in front of her friends, but I would make sure she knew that I saw her and let her stew on that until she got home.

She’ll presumably feel guilty and know she’s in trouble.

Then I would have a VERY stern talk about personal safety, especially for girls/women, so she knows WHY you said no in the first place. I’d be asking how she though I would feel if she called me in a panic and I didn’t know where she was so couldn’t help her? How would SHE feel knowing I could help her because she wasn’t where she was supposed to be. Depending on how much notice she takes of current events, I might mention Sarah Everard, not to terrify her, and not in inappropriate detail, but to impress on her the importance of me knowing where she is when she’s out, so that I can keep her safe as much as possible, and so she can keep herself safe.

Yup this would be my assumption - going to park to drink. Not something I would EVER have done

@WithMyEncyclopedia Exactly lol, it's partly because we were teenagers once that we're suspicious.