Leave DS behind when we go on holiday?

[Kermitsolvestheclimate]

We're due to go away tomorrow (in UK). DS (age 14.5) won't pack his bag or do anything to get ready to leave early in the morning despite various encouragements and warnings from us. He has just gone out for the rest of this eve (to a class he attends). He has form and caused a lot of trouble on our last holiday as he wouldn't pack to leave and we had a strict deadline to be out of the accommodation. His lack of co-operation was very stressful and I ended up clearing his room, packing his bags for him on top of everything else I was doing like clearing the kitchen, packing the car etc. he just sat there doing sweet FA. AIBU to just think sod him, we'll go without him in the morning and leave him home alone rather than have all the angst again. I refuse to accept he needs his mother to pack a bag for a few days away whilst he sits playing on his phone. I know he does want to come on the holiday and when he snaps out of his stupid mood will be upset if we leave him behind. (For context he has ASD but is 'high functioning' and is perfectly able to pack an overnight bag) .

@saltinesandcoffeecups

Gotta be honest. Most of the people in this thread suck.

Clearly the OP had hit a wall, and all the berating going has totally helped the situation, I’m sure.

Glad you’re all perfect parents with perfect kids and perfect families who have never felt liking chucking it all in. Good for you, hope you get some warm comfort from the sanctimony.

Empathy- perhaps you all ought to refresh yourselves on the concept.

Not perfect. Have the 'benefit' of 40+ years living with autism though, and it makes me so sad to think that even with the knowledge we didn't have when I needed it as a teen, people still don't 'get it'

The repeated calls for taking him with nothing or his 'worst' clothes (this is borderline abusive to a person if they have particular sensory/clothing issues) - removing his phone/not taking his charger - he probably heavily relies on his phone for regulation, also it's a communication device, so hugely beneficial to autistic people. I acknowledge how hard it is for parents (I have 2 autistic children) but at the same time parents could help themselves by helping and understanding their children rather then treating them as NT and expecting them to respond well.

It's not that I don't emphasise with frazzled parents, I just understand this from the POV of the autism child and I'm deeply upset when I see people choosing to ignore all the information out there when it could help their child.

*autistic child

@Wolfiefan

Why on earth didn’t you say he couldn’t go to the class unless he packed first? You don’t leave a 14 year old home alone.

That's what I would have done.

One of my DC would get overwhelmed by packing . I'm not going to say I didn't find it frustrating but the only solution was to support him by watching him pack and helping a little to make it companiable rather than a battle ground.He has gradually got better and can easily pack for familiar places although anywhere new provokes anxiety.

There's another thread about badly behaved teenagers.

I am truly shocked at the awful attitude and behaviour of what appears to be a significant number of teenagers and I am wondering what is going wrong in our society that they feel able to behave in this way. I don't recall being a particularly difficult teenager, apart from occasional moodiness and I now feel sorry how upset I used to get with my daughter, whose behaviour was challenging but not so vile as some of the examples on Mumsnet.

As for this particular issue, I don't think it would be wise to leave a 14 year old alone for that length of time. However, as someone else suggested, don't pack his bag and tell him you won't. It is up to him whether he has any of his clothes or other stuff with him. It might concentrate the mind.

Young people must learn that there are consequences to their unhelpful and obstructive behaviour.

If he needs help packing, then help him. He is 14, has a disorder and is your child. Leaving him behind would be cruel and unhelpful in terms of your relationship.

@ellyeth

There's another thread about badly behaved teenagers.

I am truly shocked at the awful attitude and behaviour of what appears to be a significant number of teenagers and I am wondering what is going wrong in our society that they feel able to behave in this way. I don't recall being a particularly difficult teenager, apart from occasional moodiness and I now feel sorry how upset I used to get with my daughter, whose behaviour was challenging but not so vile as some of the examples on Mumsnet.

As for this particular issue, I don't think it would be wise to leave a 14 year old alone for that length of time. However, as someone else suggested, don't pack his bag and tell him you won't. It is up to him whether he has any of his clothes or other stuff with him. It might concentrate the mind.

Young people must learn that there are consequences to their unhelpful and obstructive behaviour.

Are you seriously comparing a child with Autism to a "badly behaved teenager"?

Young people must learn that there are consequences to their unhelpful and obstructive behaviour.

You are confusing obstructive behaviour to this child with Autism having problems with executive functioning. IT IS NOT HIS FAULT.

This is a very depressing thread, the number of people who are refusing to accept what they’re being told about the challenges faced by people who aren’t NT.

I’m not talking about the OP, who is obviously at the end of her tether. I’ve been where she is.

@theDudesmummy

I have not RTFT but you can't leave a 14 yo, special needs or not, alone at home for one night, never mind 5.

@theDudesmummy Yes you certainly can leave a 14 year old at home alone for one night! Something is very seriously wrong if you can't. I know kids are mollycoddled and sheltered these days but this is just bloody ridiculous!!!

I agree.
But then a teen with autism can also be badly behaved.

I think being able to suss out if it’s one or the other can sometimes be difficult (and certainly can’t be said after the few. posts from the OP).
They clearly need different handling (and a different handling than an NT teenager).

Well I wouldn't. My kids (girls) were not even allowed to ride the tube on their own or walk to school by themselves until they were 15. You may call it mollycoddling but they have grown up just fine and are very successful and independent adults.

@Jontomsam

As a mum of an ASC/ADHD 11 year old I’m completely gobsmacked you’d consider leaving yours at home “high functioning” or not, (just for clarity that term is no longer used) As previously mentioned by other posters your son could find packing for a trip massively overwhelming. At 14 he’s still a child and considering leaving him when you know he wants to go is abhorrent to me. 😱😱

@Jontomsam What is ASC? I know what ASD is. And High Functioning is indeed still a very common term in use, not sure where you got that it wasn't.

I would only pack a very basic bag of clothes for him and not any of his luxuries, including entertainment.
Although, in future, does he need you to help him with a master list of things to pack which he can then refer to when he’s asked to pack?

@Thebookswereherfriends

I would only pack a very basic bag of clothes for him and not any of his luxuries, including entertainment. Although, in future, does he need you to help him with a master list of things to pack which he can then refer to when he’s asked to pack?

If he needs it 'in future' then he also needs it now

@Wally1983

Of late I know of a 15yo that was left home alone for 12 days out of 21 as his mum & her husband went away..typical teen had said “I don’t want to go” and they said fine and left him at home. They’re not saying that now after he stole the car, smashed it, stole money, drugs, drink etc too. The only reason she isn’t being charged with neglect is she was actually home the night he stole said car….then they discovered he’d driven it for a week. Think very carefully about leaving him home alone!

Oh this is just silly, are you saying a 17 year old or 18 year old (both old enough to leave home, work etc) shouldn't be left home for a night JUST because a 15 year old drove the family car, nicked cash from a jar and bought alcohol @Wally1983 ? Because a 17 year old and 18 year old are even more likely to do those things.

@NeonTetras

ASC is used to minimise ASD.

A 'condition' not a 'disorder'

Bollocks really, but it's coming through some areas of the NHS

@theDudesmummy

Well I wouldn't. My kids (girls) were not even allowed to ride the tube on their own or walk to school by themselves until they were 15. You may call it mollycoddling but they have grown up just fine and are very successful and independent adults.

walk to school by themselves until they were 15

And that is the WORST example of helicopter parenting I have ever seen on this site. The parents seem more immature than children these days.

NeonTetras

There is no law as to the age you can leave a child alone. But most advice says that they should not be left overnight until 16.

Under 16's can be left, of course, all day, or be trusted (depending on child) to safely get buses and trains etc etc, but not overnight.

You are wrong about high functioning, within the ASD community and amongst those diagnosing etc, the term is not used any more. The reason is that, as this OP very nicely shows, kids who are 'high functioning' in many ways can still have serious issues around executive function. The term high functioning does not help.

@steppemum That might be the guidance, and we know just how damaging and retrograde the social services are these days, going backwards at 400,000 knots; however as I said society is getting worse and worse and worse with regards to not bringing up independent children (I realise this is different from those with ASD). I was walking to school by myself at 8, organising/cooking dinner at 13, and babysitting til 9pm at 13. These days, teens can't boil an egg, let alone prepare dinner, and need to be driven to school at 15. There is a distinct developmental neglect, almost arrested development where parents don't teach their children to be independent. I certainly would leave a child under 16 (SN depending) alone at night, and I would feel like a failure as a parent if I couldn't.

As someone who is an Aspie (Aspergers - I steadfast refuse to call myself Autistic or ASD, and Aspergers is stilly fully in use in my country) I can say absolutely you are misinformed wrong regarding the use of High Functioning. The sheer volume of posters who have used the term high functioning, on this thread alone proves it. To link all people with Aspergers/ASD together and not use high functioning is very insulting and does a great disservice to those who are high functioning. To not use it is detrimental. Thankfully it is overwhelmingly in use.

So what happened OP, did you go in the end? Hope it all works out ok x

[quote NeonTetras]@steppemum That might be the guidance, and we know just how damaging and retrograde the social services are these days, going backwards at 400,000 knots; however as I said society is getting worse and worse and worse with regards to not bringing up independent children (I realise this is different from those with ASD). I was walking to school by myself at 8, organising/cooking dinner at 13, and babysitting til 9pm at 13. These days, teens can't boil an egg, let alone prepare dinner, and need to be driven to school at 15. There is a distinct developmental neglect, almost arrested development where parents don't teach their children to be independent. I certainly would leave a child under 16 (SN depending) alone at night, and I would feel like a failure as a parent if I couldn't.

As someone who is an Aspie (Aspergers - I steadfast refuse to call myself Autistic or ASD, and Aspergers is stilly fully in use in my country) I can say absolutely you are misinformed wrong regarding the use of High Functioning. The sheer volume of posters who have used the term high functioning, on this thread alone proves it. To link all people with Aspergers/ASD together and not use high functioning is very insulting and does a great disservice to those who are high functioning. To not use it is detrimental. Thankfully it is overwhelmingly in use.[/quote]
you are catatrophising. Exactly what you accused previous posters of!

There is 100% difference between sensibly not leaving a child under 16 alone over night and the entire state of the social services in this country, and the wholesale lack of independance of teens.

My kids did/do all the things that you have said, (well except baby sitting, as no, a 13 year old is not a reliable baby sitter, however grown up you think they are) but no, they are not be left overnight at 14.

And YOU may use high functioning, but, as many pp have said, it is a term on it's way out, as is aspergers. Different countries may use different terms, I am only talking about UK.

@NeonTetras The term High Functioning is very much disliked in the Autism community. I hear parents saying it all the time to try and make their children sound less disabled.
"Oh yes, Billy has Autism but it's okay as he is high functioning so he's pretty much normal"

@toolazytothinkofausername No, you're wrong, it is not at all disliked in the Autism community. I am active in not just a couple of Facebook groups for ASD but also a local support group and facilities centre in my local neighbourhood. Only a tiny few who resent it don't use it, but the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of people use the term because it is helpful as it denotes those who have more or less needs than others. If some take a negative take on it, that's on them and it's usually because they can't accept their/their child's diagnosis and feel resentful and bitter. But it is extremely helpful - if not vital - distinction within the community and fosters support and resources for those who most need it. Don't pay heed to the teeny tiny minority of resentful troublemakers.

Irrespective of age, he has a disability. Mine finds it incredibly difficult to pack a bag. They are capable of doing it but they put it off because they find it difficult. I usually give a timeframe and support. Have you explained what they need to pack? An itinerary showing how many days you'll be away and what you'll be doing would help here. Without an itinerary he may also not grasp what time he needs to be up and out either. I think you're being really unfair.

@steppemum I guess you've never heard of The Babysitters Club (based on a real group, believe it or not). You're quite sheltered if you think a 13 year old isn't mature enough to babysit. Most are. And even have First Aid certificates.

As the MANY people on this thread have shown, the term high functioning is far from the way out, on the contrary. Most people still use it. You may wish it were on the way out, but sorry, it isn't. In fact, on the contrary. It seems to be being used more and more these days. I see it used on almost every second post in one of my largest Fb ASD groups. So I'm sorry, but what you wish is simply not true.