To go to the pub with a married man?

[Mooloolaba12345]

After a conference where the end was a drinks reception. Afterwards, I went on to the pub with a colleague, just the 2 of us as others had to drive home. We have worked together for years.

We talk about most things, it’s a predominantly male team, very little is off limits and we all talk about our lives freely. The conversation included me being single and silly dating stories etc. He talked about how his marriage isn’t great.

I told a male friend about this and he said I should be careful. He said me being single and him telling me about his marriage when it was just the two of us means something.

AIBU to think I can go to the pub with a married man, talk about life and it be ok and normal?

Your other colleague prob knows more than he’s letting on about him. Just be aware.

Reading this, I feel that I have moved back to 1821.
Lines will be crossed if the woman allows that

Lines are easily crossed when BOTH people don't put in appropriate boundaries.

Most affairs won't start with jumping into bed. The absence of a sexual relationship doesn't make something ok. It's very easy to dismiss poor boundaries because we are just friends... OK so maybe his wife doesn't know.. but we haven't slept together so it's fine... I've no cheated on my wife because I've not made a physical move on colleague... colleague just gets me... I feel for colleague as he's having issues and it's so nice he can open up to me... I'll not think about whether my husband/wife would be happy with this conversation or whether what's been shared is appropriate...we're just friends.

Women are not men's therapists and it is not the role of women to teach men not to slag their wives off to colleagues. Lines aren't crossed because women don't adequately teach men not to slag their wives off.
Lines are crossed when PEOPLE think that slagging their spouse off to colleagues or acquaintances is acceptable, and the other person encourages it.

I'm all in favour of genuine friendships between men and women. I don't think a man slagging his wife off to a single female colleague counts.

Is anyone thinking of that Lurleen Lumpkin song from The Simpsons?

OP, it's fine to have male married friends and go to the pub with them, but what you have described here sounds a bit iffy. I don't trust any man who seriously complains to me about his wife. Big red flag.

@Eralos

It was fine until he spoke about his marriage. If he stayed off the topic of his marriage I’d say all else was ok, but I’d be upset if my husband spoke about us to a colleague not a close friend.

This is key, I think. Marital problems are not something to be discussed outside a very close friendship situation unless you are a bit of an arse. It’s a betrayal of your partner. I do have 2 very close, long standing male friends. They would tell me funny, commonplace irritant stories but nothing that their partners, who I am also friends with, would feel uncomfortable with. I would not be in this situation again with this colleague, which you have already said.

@SleepingStandingUp

Why is it impossible/ really unlikely that people can have friends of opposite sex and just get on with them? If I recall correctly A. Men only invest time in women they want to fuck. If a man talks to you, he's trying to fuck you or at least keep you in the line in case he has no one else to fuck. B. No one can ever talk about their martial problems, even in passing, to a friend of appropriate sexually persuasion, without it being an invitation to fuck them C. Taking about normal things with a man means it's an emotional affair. Having the same conversation with a female is fine and good. D. Even when they're married, men are icky thinking about who else they can get to fuck them. E. As a woman, you have no value to a straight man apart from sexually acts. No man is your friend. They all just want to fuck you.

I think that covers it. I mean I spend whole days out in the city with my male friend twice a year. There's banter and alcohol and they basically resemble long dates (coffee, something touristy, lunch, drinks, dinner) and he's never once tried it on. And my name friend who I go to play group with has never once accosted me in the baby change for a quickie. But obviously it's all they can think about 😂

I mean, that really made me laugh, but it's also really sad.

My very best mate is a straight single bloke. There has never once been a sexual attraction. We have fun and a laugh, and we share stuff.

OP, if there's been nothing between you so far, I don't see any reason why you shouldn't continue as you are. Don't let MN put the fear into you and spoil a pleasant work friendship. I'd maybe just shut down the confiding about his marriage. Just say you wish him well, but you're a bit uncomfortable with hearing about it.

'So would you be happy if you had a husband who discussed your marriage with a woman from work? Of course you wouldn't because it's inappropriate.'

Tbh women are just as guilty of this. When I worked I used to hear 'my husband is a useless twat' fairly frequently while the said unhappy wife was sniffing round a work colleague.

We can all moan about our marriages or relationships.

I wouldn't go to the pub with married man and listen to him moan about his wife though, but only the op knows if they were flirting with each other.

I'm married and I've been to the pub with a younger single male colleague, it wasnt a big deal.

The fact that you are aware of the dynamic is good and means you are able to exercise a little caution if he starts being out of order.

I don't think it's weird to discuss your marriage with colleagues if they are long standing friends. My mate at work has said various things about his home life to me, we are good friends. Some people are more open than others, that's the nature of friendship.

I am also long-term single. The amount of married/old/unsuitable men who try to wangle some kind of dirty is unbelievable. Shocking actually.

I am seriously considering having a (private/internal) policy of only engaging in polite conversation with women in the workplace and similar places. It seems like even saying "Hello" is a green light to many men. They get carried away in their own heads and have ridiculous notions of me being interested in them when I have given off no such vibe at all. It's pathetic.

In my experience it is possible to have platonic male friends, where there is no romantic interest on either side, but it is a lot rarer than we like to think.

And yes - with my one and only actual platonic male friend (who has a gf), there are unspoken rules about what is and is not appropriate to discuss. We both naturally know this and have never needed to openly state it.

@QuestionNumberOne

Nothing wrong with it.

Unless the married man starts devaluing his marriage and his partner to you. Boundary crossed, cosy little secret chat that the wife must never know about created.

Tired old cliche flickering to life in front of you. Surprised you couldn’t see that.

Beautifully put

@CampagVelocet

It's fine. Lots of people on MN are really weird about this. You can be friends with people of either sex IMHO. And friends talk to one another about stuff. Everyone is always banging on about looking after your mental health and (for me at least) sometimes that means venting about things you're stressed about. It doesn't mean he wants to shag you FFS.

They are not friends, they are colleagues.

@Puzzledandpissedoff

Absolutely nothing wrong with a simple drink with anyone, married or not, but the guy's clearly taking it beyond that and fishing for what you're up for

He's not 'clearly' doing anything. He might be fishing, yes, but he might not. Plenty of people (even on this thread) think that he might easily not be fishing, so there's nothing 'clear' here. Only OP knows the nuances.

God, it's scary that on a female-dominated forum, women have such a low opinion of other women. (ie they can't keep their knickers on the moment a married man talks about his unhappy marriage.)

One of the reasons that men have higher suicide rates and MH issues is because they don't talk about their emotions.

One of the reasons for this is men are not good at talking to other men.

Yes, there will be chancers out there.

But FGS give intelligent women some credit for knowing how and where to draw the line.

He's not 'clearly' doing anything. He might be fishing, yes, but he might not

Fair comment, yes, and you're quite right that OP was there to hear the nuances and we weren't

However I still think she's wise - as per her last post - to distance herself a bit from this kind of thing. After all there's no need to invite complications where they shouldn't exist, and no doubt there are plenty of colleagues to have a drink with who don't want to advertise their "failing marriage"

Well it's a colleague isn't it, not his friend. It's none of her business. Maybe he does want to get her into bed, maybe he doesn't. It doesn't mean he hasn't crossed a line. I don't think telling bloke colleagues about the marriage is OK, but assuming he's straight there's a higher chance he has other intentions behind it by talking to a woman.

FGS give intelligent women some credit for knowing how and where to draw the line

Far from suggesting OP "can't keep her knickers on", I thought most of us had?

After all she asked the question, the balance of opinion is that this might be better avoided and that's what she's chosen to do (and let's not forget that, if she'd been entirely comfortable with how the meetup went down, she probably wouldn't have asked in the first place)

@MintyGreenDream

Sounds like he's sizing you up for a shag or an affair

This.

His marriage problems are nothing to do with you. Would you be happy if you were the wife in this situation? I doubt anyone would be, I'd be furious. Their marriage is their issue, no one else's.

They are not friends, they are colleagues
Exactly this.
It's funny how a good number of married men seem to have no male friends they can talk to about their unhappy marriages, no female friends they can talk to about their unhappy marriages, no family they can talk to about their unhappy marriages, they don't stand around with male colleagues talking about their marriage problems either, but when a single, female colleague is around suddenly they feel the need to pour out their marital woes and how their wife doesn't get them, marital life is shit, it's so nice to be able to talk to someone who gets it.

It's not hard to see how emotional affairs begin though given that some posters on this thread are doing their very best to argue it's totally OK for married men to slag their spouses off to single, female colleagues and if men cross boundaries it's because women let them, rather than married men need to have a bit of respect for their spouse.

Well it SHOULD be OK, but my first husband broke our marriage up in that way. Innocent drink with a married client. She spent the evening talking about her unhappy marriage, then later bombarded him with phone calls, begging him to meet her. And that's how it started. Just be careful.

@Mooloolaba12345

I am very open so can take openness from others as normality. It does sometimes backfire as I can be oblivious to what is really going on

He has never seemed flirty and I have been single for years so it’s not a new thing.

We have to travel often - how do I handle this going forward?

There is zero chemistry - no interest from me whatsoever

Just make it clear you are not interested. I would be really pissed off if my DH was out drinking with single colleagues moaning about our marriage.

@LolaSmiles

They are not friends, they are colleagues Exactly this. It's funny how a good number of married men seem to have no male friends they can talk to about their unhappy marriages, no female friends they can talk to about their unhappy marriages, no family they can talk to about their unhappy marriages, they don't stand around with male colleagues talking about their marriage problems either, but when a single, female colleague is around suddenly they feel the need to pour out their marital woes and how their wife doesn't get them, marital life is shit, it's so nice to be able to talk to someone who gets it.

It's not hard to see how emotional affairs begin though given that some posters on this thread are doing their very best to argue it's totally OK for married men to slag their spouses off to single, female colleagues and if men cross boundaries it's because women let them, rather than married men need to have a bit of respect for their spouse.

This 💯

My very best mate is a straight single bloke. There has never once been a sexual attraction. We have fun and a laugh, and we share stuff.

You really have to find eachother mutually very unattractive or have some sort of other no-go thing.
Otherwise it can get awkward very soon. It can become this ugly "friendzone" kind of thing where one of you feels rejected, or third parties will get involved. Let's say his wife finds out, has a fit of rage, and smashes your card.

I’d feel so betrayed if my husband spoke to a single, female colleague about being unhappy in our marriage.

He should be talking to his wife about it. He should talking to a marriage counsellor about it.
It’s so inappropriate to put OP in that situation too. She clearly felt uncomfortable enough to write a whole thread about it.

Trust your gut, OP. If you thought it was a friendly chat, you wouldn’t have even thought about asking other people’s opinions. If he tries to confide in you again, tell him you don’t feel comfortable talking about his marital issues and advise him to speak to his wife/ suggest marriage counselling.

I would say on the face of it no worries but its a flaglet...be careful going forward...maybe try changing the subject and see what happens

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken

I’d feel so betrayed if my husband spoke to a single, female colleague about being unhappy in our marriage.

He should be talking to his wife about it. He should talking to a marriage counsellor about it.
It’s so inappropriate to put OP in that situation too. She clearly felt uncomfortable enough to write a whole thread about it.

Trust your gut, OP. If you thought it was a friendly chat, you wouldn’t have even thought about asking other people’s opinions. If he tries to confide in you again, tell him you don’t feel comfortable talking about his marital issues and advise him to speak to his wife/ suggest marriage counselling.

but people do talk about their marriage and relationship problems on here and not with the partner concerned? I know its not quite the same but similar? except for the potential shag of course

@MintyGreenDream

Sounds like he's sizing you up for a shag or an affair

Agree