To go to the pub with a married man?

[Mooloolaba12345]

After a conference where the end was a drinks reception. Afterwards, I went on to the pub with a colleague, just the 2 of us as others had to drive home. We have worked together for years.

We talk about most things, it’s a predominantly male team, very little is off limits and we all talk about our lives freely. The conversation included me being single and silly dating stories etc. He talked about how his marriage isn’t great.

I told a male friend about this and he said I should be careful. He said me being single and him telling me about his marriage when it was just the two of us means something.

AIBU to think I can go to the pub with a married man, talk about life and it be ok and normal?

These things aren't right or wrong IMO, they depend on lots of factors we simply can't know, like what's in his mind for starters. I do tend to avoid getting on one to one with men at work when I have a slight inkling they are a bit too enthusiastic, so I might swerve a lunch invite out of nowhere, or avoid late night drinks when everyone else has gone home. I like to keep things fairly straight and professional and unambiguous as I hate dealing with it when it's not. I have had many male friends/colleagues at work, tend to do a quick coffee in daylight hours, drink as part of a group, and if we were the last two left, I probably wouldn't bang on about how I'm single to be honest!

I don't drink though and that makes things much easier to perceive, and much less likely for a stupid moment.

I have also avoided drinks with a colleague because I fancied them! Not in a marriage-threatening way, but I just chose to step back because I could feel I was getting excited about going for drinks and I just didn't need the hassle. Spent the night by myself watching TV in the hotel. Much the best way.

You know yourself, you know him, I wouldn't seek to deepen this friendship further just the two of you, given you aren't close friends already and what you've said so far, just don't keep seeking out these situations, if one arises naturally, be really professional and hope he's there for the same reason. Don't be startled if he's not though.

Use your judgement as an intelligent woman. If you are happy and comfortable, don't allow someone else to make you question it.
I have had lots of make colleagues that I have got on great with and wouldn't think twice about a drink and a meal in your circs. Cos we are grown ups.

It is possible yes, but be careful. The red flags would be where he starts to flirt, telling you his wife does not get him like you do etc. Make sure you "telegraph" that you are not interested in more, so you can ask questions around his wife [and family?], note you are very happy in your life etc.

As with most situations, it depends on the people involved.

I know some male colleagues I could (and would) happily have a drink with one-to-one, and whose marriages wouldn't be off the cards in terms of conversation. Our relationship whilst more than casual work acquaintances is definitely no more than firmly platonic. Friends do share problems, you know.

However, I do know other male colleagues who I wouldn't go out with other than in a group setting, because I know 'they would if they could'. Although I'd never let them (I know what it's like to be cheated on), I deliberately avoid one-to-one situations, because I know I'd feel unhappy if I was the wife/girlfriend.

It's only OK to do one-to-one with a married man if there is clearly no chemistry/feelings on both sides. If there's a spark - even if one-sided - avoid, avoid, avoid. It's not just about the reality of the situation (nothing would happen), it's about the perception of the situation (how hurt you'd make the wife/girlfriend feel).

There is a world of difference between taking about silly dating stories and taking about current marital issues with a colleague. The later crosses a line and is inappropriate.

I would go to a pub with a male colleague, but if it happens again I would be tempted to say - sorry to hear you are having problems with your marriage, must be tough, but it is probably best you discuss them with a friend who knows you better - then change the subject.

I don´t see anything unusual in this. I have married friends who are male. One of them in particular was my housemate at uni and I´ve known him for 30 years. Of course when I meet up with him, we speak about normal stuff, and that includes me being single and other funny stories about OLD. I hope he doesn´t think I am hitting on him!!!!

You weren’t unreasonable but he was.
Be cautious of this man. I wouldn’t spend any time alone with him again.

You can go to the pub with a married colleague and it be totally above board.
You can discuss relationship issues with a close friend of the opposite sex and it be totally above board.

The reason this situation is potentially dodgy is that you're not close friends, you're single, and he's telling you his marriage problems. It sounds like he's testing the waters with you and that's not OK.

@JinglingHellsBells

I'm sorry but I think it's rather silly that in 2021 a woman cannot go for a drink with a married man (who is unhappy) and have to believe he wants an affair and is 'grooming' her for that.

It is quite possible to make it clear that, although the OP is happy to be a listener, she isn't going to get into bed with him.

It takes 2 to have an affair.

All the posts saying steer clear of him suggest the OP (or women in general) are silly little airheads who are going to be 'caught' by a man into an affair, just because they have a drink with him after work, and he talks about his marriage issues.

It's really insulting and patronising.

This.

But this is MN, so everyone obviously jumps to the conclusion that the man is trying to get a colleague into bed.

I’ve had a recent similar experience myself but with some differences and I decided afterwards that it wasn’t right.

So I’m married with DC and my friend is married with DC. Im a woman he’s a man, we’ve known each other for 20+ years but never met up until we had similar age kids who go to the same school and get along well. So sometimes we take all the kids out for a day in half term if our partners are working (it’s nice to have another adult to chat to!) Last time he confided in me about his marriage problems whilst the kids were off on play equipment out of earshot, I think he was desperate for someone to talk to and maybe needed someone not close to the family/just found it easier to talk to a woman. It felt totally normal (like talking to a female friend) and I was supportive of him, tried to give him advice like I would a female friend. However on reflection I’ve felt that if I had problems and my husband went off telling another woman about it I would feel betrayed.

I think my final sentence is your main problem here. His wife would probably feel crap if she knew that he went for a drink with you and told about their private problems. On this basis I personally wouldn’t allow it to continue. It’s tough because people need to talk but it’s also important to be as respectful as possible.

I don't see anything wrong with going for drinks with a married work colleague in the situation you describe. I've done this many times. However, it has never crossed a line into anything where I've thought I needed to be careful.

Him talking about you being single and his marital problems has crossed the line in my opinion. This is the sort of thing which could lead to an emotional affair and then perhaps on to something else.
I wouldn't meet him on his own for drinks again. If a similar situation arises where all your other colleagues are going him and not on to the pub, then I'd go home too and just say "Yeah, actually it's later than I thought and I'm really tired now so I'll give it a miss too".

TBH, I think if my DH went to the pub with a female colleague and was telling her all our marriage problems (which could also be construed as slagging off his wife depending on what is said) then I think I'd feel quite humiliated and betrayed actually. If you asked his wife does she mind you knowing all these issues in her marriage what do you think she will say? Of course she would mind - it's none of your business and he shouldn't be telling you that stuff.

Also yeah, it kind of does sound like he is doing the whole 'my wife doesn't understand me' routine on his single female colleague - aka, potentially putting out tentacles to see if you will respond.

Either way, yeah it's a bit shit isn't it. Can you really not see that? I'd back right off if I was you, frankly.

you can and its maybe innocent, but it can get weird very quickly. Once is enough.

Drinks with married colleague after conferences = fine.
Drinks with married colleague talking about life in general, kids, social stuff, talks positively about his wife = fine

Drinks with married colleague moaning about his wife = Not fine.

@Mooloolaba12345

The consensus is it’s not ok, or there are dodgy motives, so I’ll steer clear as much as possible

Thank you for your perspective x

If you're going to take life instruction from the majority opinion on MN, you won't be able to have any male friends at all, because they'll all have an ulterior motive. All men only want one thing from all women, and if they try to make it look like they just want to be friends, and discuss their life, they're lying toads, and can already be labelled 'unfaithful', even though they've done nothing at all.

Meanwhile in the real world, lots of people have friends of the opposite sex, and discuss the ups and downs of their marriages, just as you might with a same-sex friend.

MN is not a cross section of society.

In your situation, you don't need to 'be careful'. You need to do what you should always be doing so routinely that you don't even know you're doing it: Know your boundaries, and if necessary, enforce them.

Don't punish the guy for his ulterior motives until he actually demonstrates to you that he has ulterior motives. Talking about your marriage is something that friends do. He hasn't crossed a line until he starts hinting that he wants more from you.

He didn't talk about life, though. He talked about his marriage problems to a colleague whom he knows is single

Exactly

Absolutely nothing wrong with a simple drink with anyone, married or not, but the guy's clearly taking it beyond that and fishing for what you're up for

You might want to watch the "talking openly - nothing off limits" at work too; no doubt it all feels very friendly, but that's not always appropriate in the workplace

It was fine until he spoke about his marriage. If he stayed off the topic of his marriage I’d say all else was ok, but I’d be upset if my husband spoke about us to a colleague not a close friend.

But this is MN, so everyone obviously jumps to the conclusion that the man is trying to get a colleague into bed.
It's not that he's necessarily trying to get OP into bed, it's that unless someone is a close friend offloading your marital problems onto a single person of the opposite sex is pushing boundaries and it's very easy for the people involved to cross lines.

If they were good friends, partners were aware of a good friendship and both people were quite open about personal things, then that would be different.
A married man talking negatively about his wife to a single female colleague isn't appropriate.

I think him telling you his marriage isn't great was an opening line. So tread carefully.

If he hadn't done that then it wouldn't be a problem.

It's fine. Lots of people on MN are really weird about this. You can be friends with people of either sex IMHO. And friends talk to one another about stuff. Everyone is always banging on about looking after your mental health and (for me at least) sometimes that means venting about things you're stressed about. It doesn't mean he wants to shag you FFS.

@WTF475878237NC

Wants a bit of an ego boost with you instead of talking to his wife and watering his own grass.

Exactly this and personally if my partner was in the pub with you slagging off our relationship I’d be very unhappy to say the least.

So would you be happy if you had a husband who discussed your marriage with a woman from work? Of course you wouldn't because it's inappropriate.

Do married women talk to colleagues in pubs about their marital probs, or is it mainly seedy blokes

It's not that he's necessarily trying to get OP into bed, it's that unless someone is a close friend offloading your marital problems onto a single person of the opposite sex is pushing boundaries and it's very easy for the people involved to cross lines.

Reading this, I feel that I have moved back to 1821.

Lines will be crossed if the woman allows that.

FWIW I have friends who work in therapy. They tell me that men often say they have no one to talk to (their mates all talk about footie, cars and work.) Often men find it helpful to talk to a woman (or any therapist.)

Yes, some men may be hankering after an affair. BUT it's very easy for a woman to draw the line and remain a friend.

There are so many ways to make it obvious that a woman is not interested: don't go for a drink every time he asks, don't flirt, talk about your own life, etc etc. Or just be blunt and say you'd never get into a relationship with someone married.

@furbabymama87

So would you be happy if you had a husband who discussed your marriage with a woman from work? Of course you wouldn't because it's inappropriate.

But he could do it with a man?

What's the difference?

Only you think he would try to get the woman into bed.