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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To go to the pub with a married man?

271 replies

Mooloolaba12345 · 13/10/2021 22:46

After a conference where the end was a drinks reception. Afterwards, I went on to the pub with a colleague, just the 2 of us as others had to drive home. We have worked together for years.

We talk about most things, it’s a predominantly male team, very little is off limits and we all talk about our lives freely. The conversation included me being single and silly dating stories etc. He talked about how his marriage isn’t great.

I told a male friend about this and he said I should be careful. He said me being single and him telling me about his marriage when it was just the two of us means something.

AIBU to think I can go to the pub with a married man, talk about life and it be ok and normal?

OP posts:
longwayoff · 15/10/2021 19:12

Or, maybe, he could have a word with her indoors, yes, her, the difficult wife herself.

LoveGrooveDanceParty · 15/10/2021 19:32

Wow, there really are some rubber arms on this thread - the reaching, to try to explain it away as anything other than the most obvious and likely scenario.

The disingenuous are out in force…

MasterBeth · 15/10/2021 19:41

So much bullshit presumption on this thread.

The people who insist this guy was “sizing the OP up for a shag” when they have no idea if he was or not.

And then, even if he was, the idea that the OP can’t, at that point, tell him she’s not interested.

How “He talked about how his marriage isn’t great” becomes “how dare he sit there slagging his wife off?”

The people who cannot conceive that a colleague could be a friend, or maybe that the way a colleague becomes a friend is by sharing personal stories with each other.

Every guy is not a sleazy guy even though many of them are. If he says or does anything that you personally feel uncomfortable with, then tell him to stop. But don’t let other people’s judgment and suspicion spoil an OK and normal experience for you.

LolaSmiles · 15/10/2021 19:43

NeverDropYourMooncup

I see, so naturally the only option for men is to find a single, female colleague to share his marital woes with.
The world is shit for men's mental health, so the solution is women should lower their standards and accept that it's entirely reasonable for their husband to bitch about their relationships when chilling 1 on 1 with a single, female colleague?
Hmm

FWIW plenty of people have said that it would be different if a man and a woman were close friends because sharing is part of close friendships. A colleague is not a close friend and so far nobody's managed to explain why these men seem to regularly find the need to open up to female colleagues/acquaintances who are single/younger/considered datable.

MasterBeth · 15/10/2021 19:46

@BadNomad

No one said any of that. He was complaining about his marriage, not his mental health. He told her when they were alone. Why her? Why not his other colleagues? Why not when they're all together? Why did it have to be her when they were alone? He chose that moment for a reason.
A) Because he wanted to groom her for an affair.

B) Because he felt she was a sympathetic ear, someone who seemed sensitive and kind, a good listener.

Both outcomes are possible. No-one on here can know which this is.

TedMullins · 15/10/2021 19:50

@JaniieJones

'So would you be happy if you had a husband who discussed your marriage with a woman from work? Of course you wouldn't because it's inappropriate.'

Tbh women are just as guilty of this. When I worked I used to hear 'my husband is a useless twat' fairly frequently while the said unhappy wife was sniffing round a work colleague.

We can all moan about our marriages or relationships.

I wouldn't go to the pub with married man and listen to him moan about his wife though, but only the op knows if they were flirting with each other.

In response to the question asked here, I can hand on heart say I wouldn’t care. I’d expect it to come up in conversation tbh. I don’t consider my relationships secret. If I’m in company I feel comfortable enough divulging personal relationship issues to while my partner isn’t there that’s up to me? I don’t think talking about your partner/spouse - even if you’re not putting them in a great light - is a betrayal. If anything, I think it’s preferable to discuss problems with an unbiased third party like a colleague they’ll likely never meet, because if you talk to a mutual friend it could be awkward if they also confide in the same friend, and b) the colleague who doesn’t know them may give more impartial and dispassionate advice than someone who does.
TedMullins · 15/10/2021 19:55

@BadlyFormedQuestion

There are two things to separate out here:
  1. Going to the pub with a colleague (who happens to be a married man)
  2. Him telling you about his marital problems.

The first is fine. When it moves in to the second, that’s where warning bells go off.

When I was single, I used to have lunch and go to the pub with a married colleague very regularly. It’s was all fine. The fact he was a man made no difference and we just chatted about ordinary stuff. I became good friends with his wife too.

We would never have discussed any marital difficulties they might have been having. It just wouldn’t have been appropriate. We could talk about any dating nonsense in my life - but for the purposes of the friendship his marriage was just a simple fact and not something to be examined in any way. That would have felt extremely inappropriate to me and I’d have stopped spending time on my own with him if there’d been any hint of it.

I just find this really odd. If you’re friends, why is it inappropriate? Just because you’re single and the opposite sex? What about married gay couples, who can they talk to about marriage problems? If a man I knew and was friendly with started talking about his marital problems but we weren’t close friends, my first response would be to say that I was sorry to hear that and I’m happy to lend an ear if he’d like my advice. If he started down the “I wish my wife understood me like you do” bullshit then his motives would become clear, but unless and until that happened I would just listen and offer an unbiased opinion.
NeverDropYourMoonCup · 15/10/2021 20:37

@LolaSmiles

NeverDropYourMooncup

I see, so naturally the only option for men is to find a single, female colleague to share his marital woes with.
The world is shit for men's mental health, so the solution is women should lower their standards and accept that it's entirely reasonable for their husband to bitch about their relationships when chilling 1 on 1 with a single, female colleague?
Hmm

FWIW plenty of people have said that it would be different if a man and a woman were close friends because sharing is part of close friendships. A colleague is not a close friend and so far nobody's managed to explain why these men seem to regularly find the need to open up to female colleagues/acquaintances who are single/younger/considered datable.

How does anybody make friends if they're not allowed to talk in more depth to anyone?

Amongst other things, I've got a mental health first aid qualification and the people who would talk to me because they were struggling and didn't have the wide support networks assumed to be available to everybody were almost entirely men.

There's been depression, stress, divorce, bereavement, loneliness, caring responsibilities, domestic abuse and coercive control, PTSD and undiagnosed autism amongst the things they have talked about for the first time when I've just been my usual self. I'm sure that some here would say 'oh well, that's different, you're clearly not attractive if they aren't trying to fuck you', but I'm not that hideous.

There's huge stigma in admitting weakness or 'seeing somebody', especially if there's a worry it could be pounced upon at work as well. So they're talking to somebody at work who they get along with. And sometimes it's just being able to say the words to somebody safe, sometimes it's really needing professional advice, which they're encouraged to do. And then we get on with normal working relationships again.

Men aren't all walking penises in search of receptacles. They do have feelings and fears, too. And sometimes that means they will talk to a colleague who they think won't take the piss or laugh at them because they get along normally - sometimes that's a woman.

Sometimes a man is looking for more than a chat in the pub or in an office. But that doesn't mean that a) they should feel unable to speak to a woman when she is somebody they feel comfortable talking to and b) that women should be reduced to their sexual value by other men and other women because a man feels comfortable talking to them. It's the logic that is used by coercive and controlling men to make sure their spouses never look at a man, much less speak to them 'because it's obvious he's only doing that because he wants to fuck you'.

If you don't give a flying fuck about anybody else (and you don't have to, it's not obligatory), fine. If you are sure that no man would ever be able to speak to you without wanting to jump your bones and your husband is so untrustworthy that speaking to a female that isn't you means he's inherently looking for a quick bunk up, that's your dysfunctional relationship.

But I think saying it's impossible to be anything other than looking for sex is unfair to both men and women.

MasterBeth · 15/10/2021 20:59

Well said.

LolaSmiles · 15/10/2021 21:02

NeverDropYourMoonCup

Nobody has said all men are walking pensies looking to pounce for sex, nor has anyone said men and women can't talk to each other or be friends without it being about sex.

People are questioning a situation where a man chooses to talk about the state of his marriage when alone with a single, female colleague.

How from that you twist it into some sob story where men are the real victims and it's awful women who are hating on everyone, whilst thinking every man wants to shag them is bizarre.

Gotta love mumsnet:
People point out that it's probably fair for someone to mention to an OP to be wary of a male colleague offloading about his marital problems because they aren't close friends, it's generally not the done thing, it's likely crossing a boundary and there's a lot of men who seem prone to testing the waters by opening up about marital issues to single/younger female colleagues or acquaintances.
Inevitable responses: NAMALT, but what about men's mental health, but what about the fact that all these men can't help but find the only people they can talk to are single women at work, he said the marriage wasn't good but that doesn't mean he was batching about his marriage, not all men want sex, not all men want to shag every woman they meet, you must all have negative experiences with men but I'm different from all you women.

madisonbridges · 15/10/2021 21:15

But the op has been quite clear that her longstanding friend didn't hit on her or make her feel uncomfortable and didn't send out any red flags at all. She had a nice time with him, they each discussed love life problems in light-hearted way and then they went home. Why can't you credit the op who was actually there in that situation with as much and probably more knowledge of what was going on as you do other posters that were not there and do not know either of these people?

longwayoff · 15/10/2021 21:57

Great. Why is OP questioning it then?

Rosebel · 15/10/2021 22:04

I used to go for drinks with one of my male colleagues, just the two of us. Neither of us were married but I was in a long term relationship and sometimes I did tell him about issues in our relationship. Just like I would with a female friend.
Never led to an affair, emotional or otherwise. So I wouldn't have a problem going for drinks with a colleague regardless of their gender or relationship status. It doesn't always mean someone is looking for a shag.
Of course that could've been what he wanted. You've known him for years so surely you know if he's a creep or not?

MasterBeth · 15/10/2021 22:07

@LolaSmiles

NeverDropYourMoonCup

Nobody has said all men are walking pensies looking to pounce for sex, nor has anyone said men and women can't talk to each other or be friends without it being about sex.

People are questioning a situation where a man chooses to talk about the state of his marriage when alone with a single, female colleague.

How from that you twist it into some sob story where men are the real victims and it's awful women who are hating on everyone, whilst thinking every man wants to shag them is bizarre.

Gotta love mumsnet:
People point out that it's probably fair for someone to mention to an OP to be wary of a male colleague offloading about his marital problems because they aren't close friends, it's generally not the done thing, it's likely crossing a boundary and there's a lot of men who seem prone to testing the waters by opening up about marital issues to single/younger female colleagues or acquaintances.
Inevitable responses: NAMALT, but what about men's mental health, but what about the fact that all these men can't help but find the only people they can talk to are single women at work, he said the marriage wasn't good but that doesn't mean he was batching about his marriage, not all men want sex, not all men want to shag every woman they meet, you must all have negative experiences with men but I'm different from all you women.

“Sounds like he's sizing you up for a shag or an affair.”

“He'll be like a fly on shit from now on.”

“Trying it on, or seeing if you're open to that. Even the nicest men want to get an easy legover when the wife isn't looking.”

“This guy was sniffing around her like a dog looking for a lamp post to piss on. If you can't recognise that then...”

“Men are arseholes. Just always remember that when you think your 'just having a drink'. Because he thinks 'I would shag her'.”

“ANY married man who tells a (usually single) woman all about the sorry state of his marriage is lining up a sympathy shag.”

“It ain't what you think it is baby. Really not. Hand up your skirt next time, he's just working out the lie of the land.”

LolaSmiles · 15/10/2021 22:12

She didn't say the colleague is a long standing friend. She said he's a colleague of 2 years.

When talking about someone else she mentioned that a 'male friend' has said for her to keep her eyes open.

One of them is described by the OP as a colleague, the other as a friend. As many people have said there is a different between conversations between colleagues and conversations between good friends.

It really isn't that big a deal to think my male friend has advised caution about being a shoulder for a married male colleague to discuss his marital problems, I'll probably be a little more conscious about boundaries if the topic comes up again.

longwayoff to be fair to the OP, they have listened to what their male friend said and from their responses did seem open to people's thoughts.

todaysdilemma · 15/10/2021 22:41

@madisonbridges

If it's the sort of thing people normally discuss with a therapist

How many people normally discuss marital spats with a therapist? I've known quite a few people get divorced and none had therapists. You might not discuss the state of your marriage with a new acquaintance but this is a longstanding friendship. You're telling me women don't chat with colleagues and friends about their marriages? Yeah right.

What is a long-standing friendship? Knowing someone at work for years is completely different to being actual friends who discuss deeper, more intimate issues. Out of curiosity, if no topics are out of bounds in a work friendship, how many here would be happy to chat about bryan from accounts' porn addiction, or his premature ejaculation. Or how many women here would discuss happily discuss their menstrual cycle with a bloke from work. So clearly, there are plenty of topics we do not share with anyone other than very close friends or people with whom we've established this sort of connection. Also, we would happily share rooms with female friends or long standing male friends on holiday, why don't we do that on work trips? So pretending all friendships are the same and discussing marital problems in the pub with a colleague (who isn't a close friend) isn't odd, is bizarre.

And marital difficulties are the sorts of topics that are discussed in counselling. We don't go to therapy to discuss politics, sports, holiday plans etc. So if it's that bad he needs to unload to a single colleague (who isn't even married to offer a relevant perspective), maybe he should consider talking to his friends or an actual therapist.

BigFatLiar · 15/10/2021 23:03

@BadNomad

No one said any of that. He was complaining about his marriage, not his mental health. He told her when they were alone. Why her? Why not his other colleagues? Why not when they're all together? Why did it have to be her when they were alone? He chose that moment for a reason.
She didn't say he was complaining as such.

She says 'nothing was off limits', she was telling him about her being single and dating he mentioned his marriage wasn't great. Sounds to me as though they were both out of order for work colleagues chatting.
very little is off limits and we all talk about our lives freely not really what you expect from colleagues. If you're going to be talking freely about your lives, you'll get comments you find unsettling.

He may not have been looking to pick you up but you really need to be more discerning about what you talk about with colleagues. Whats on telly - ok, new car choice - ok, sport - ok, food - ok, cinema - ok, your love life - definitely not.

MasterBeth · 15/10/2021 23:24

Why am I not allowed to talk to my colleagues about whatever I choose?

Maybe I won’t choose to talk to my boss about my Genito-urinary history.

Maybe I will choose to tell my teammate that my partner sometimes pisses me off.

Some of you lot are weird. You put arbitrary rules in place that bear no relationship to my life at work.

IrishMel · 15/10/2021 23:30

I think fine going for the drinks but not if a regular thing. But him talking to you about his marriage and wife is not on. If that was me I would have said really you should be talking to your wife or a counsellor. He was trying to give a sob story probably of how hard done by he is. Maybe he is known for doing this so that is why other colleague said what they did. Most wives would not be happy. Thank god am single, too much drama in dating these days.

TedMullins · 15/10/2021 23:48

@MasterBeth

Why am I not allowed to talk to my colleagues about whatever I choose?

Maybe I won’t choose to talk to my boss about my Genito-urinary history.

Maybe I will choose to tell my teammate that my partner sometimes pisses me off.

Some of you lot are weird. You put arbitrary rules in place that bear no relationship to my life at work.

Agreed! Surely it depends entirely on the people you work with? If they’re shy/boring/uptight/unpleasant then no, you probably won’t tell them about personal issues. But if you’re all outgoing, relaxed, chatty people who have a lot in common then the conversation invariably strays into personal things sometimes. The last few workplaces I’ve worked at have all been very relaxed and matey, and we had all kinds of conversations about our personal lives as well as generally getting on with each other. Who’s the arbiter of when a colleague becomes a friend and is allowed to hear these things? I’ve never worked anywhere where there was a rule, written or unwritten, that you couldn’t talk about personal or relationship issues.
Skinnymuffins · 16/10/2021 00:38

You're giving him so much power here. Why do we have to continually question our own good intentions and actions based on what a man says or does?!

You do your normal going to the pub with him routine - you're doing nothing wrong so stop taking responsibility for what he's saying or doing. That's his problem.

If he actually crosses a line, don't meet him anymore but until then, stop worrying about what you are doing as you are actually doing nothing wrong. Let him worry about his actions.

Mooloolaba12345 · 16/10/2021 00:53

Wow, this has escalated - thanks for the responses

I didn’t say he was slagging off his wife, just that things weren’t great. There wasn’t a ‘my wife doesn’t understand me’ speech, more a shrug over not spending time together, different interests and neither having much drive to fix it. He did complain that life was quite boring, but no blame placed

I suggested counselling etc - I am single now, but was married previously

Some posters have assumed that he is older and I am younger (and attractive - thanks Wink) - FWIW I am older.

I like to chat and tend to get into deeper conversations with people, not in a nosey way. In no way was I testing the waters as some have suggested!

My friend is not a colleague and doesn’t know the married man. His comments made me question something which initially seemed ok, hence the question here

OP posts:
IrishMel · 16/10/2021 05:24

You said he was complaining over not spending more time together with his wife but yet there he is spending a few hours in the pub. Not blaming you at all as you sound lovely but just be careful as he may be crying on your shoulder the next time ha ....it is like chinese whimpers on here

TirednWorried · 16/10/2021 05:31

The conversation included me being single and silly dating stories etc. He talked about how his marriage isn’t great

It's not just him. Why are you talking to him about your dating?

madisonbridges · 16/10/2021 05:40

Knowing someone at work for years is completely different to being actual friends who discuss deeper, more intimate issues.

@todaysdilemma. The op said that very little is off limits and we all talk about our lives freely. So it was would seem that their friendship covers "deeper intimate issues." Your idea that work colleagues are not friends is bizarre. I've met most of my 'actual' friends through work. And although I've never discussed premature ejaculation, I have discussed bowel movements with male colleagues. I don't discuss menstrual issues even with my female friends so I wouldn't discuss it with my male friends. (I loved my dad to the moon and back and I never discussed my periods with him either.) This does not mean they're not a friend. My definition of a friend is not "people I can discuss and show my vulva to" or something of that ilk. What a ridiculous notion.

Also, we would happily share rooms with female friends or long standing male friends on holiday, why don't we do that on work trips?
Because I would expect work to pay for me to have my own room, even if I were there with my best friend or even sister. The two friends I'm most likely to go away with and share a room with are two friends I've worked with. So I'd share a room on holiday with them but not at a work do. One of my closet friends is a married man who I used to work with and for. He does occasionally mention a problem in his marriage but that doesn't mean I'd be happy to share a room with him. Neither of us would want yo do that unless ut was an emergency. He's still a really good friend whose opinion and advice I'd happily ask for. Have you only discussed personal issues if you've shared a room with them? I think you'll find most people don't have relationships like that.

So if it's that bad he needs to unload to a single colleague (who isn't even married to offer a relevant perspective), maybe he should consider talking to his friends or an actual therapist.

  1. you don't know if she's been married before.
  2. she might never have married but have been in a long relationship.
  3. You have a very narrow view of who can give advice.
  4. the op considers him to be her friend You have read the post and jumped to a lot of conclusions on very limited information and you sound very judgemental. I can see why you have a limited amount of people wanting to share their problems with you.