Please tell me I did the right thing not giving change to this man.

[Kaceya2230]

I've heard many times that people have had other people approach them in the street asking for money for a train fair or what not and often it's a scam. Never experienced it myself until today... possibly!

In a town centre, I popped into boots and I noticed a man sitting on the bench outside. I only took notice because he had a super cute dog with him. The guy looked pretty normal. As I left the shop he asked if I could help him - he was £2 short on a train fair and asked if I could spare a pound. I said no I'm sorry I don't carry change.

I did have change but in my purse I had money from my grandma for something. Some money for other things. I was worried if I opened it and he seen the notes I had I may be a target. I don't actually usually carry any cash but today I did have some on me for once!

But he was really nice. He just saying okay thank you and I went on with my day. He wasn't persistent or pressuring. Have I just ruined someone's day by not giving him any money?

To add the train station is quite a distance from where he was sat down so didn't sound convincing.

Would you have given change?

I could cry some of the attitudes on this post. Its fortunate so many of you haven’t experienced losing a loved one to mental illness and subsequently homelessness. The views you hold about the circumstances of these people are born of a certain privilege.

50% of people with a serious mental illness have no insight, they do not believe or accept that they are ill. They may have chosen homelessness as a last resort after living in a reality where every loved one, police officer, doctor, ‘outreach’ service - tells them they are ill, need help and may even try to have them hospitalised. Rationally they may feel have no where to turn for help, they will avoid homeless services and any person of authority for this very reason. They will therefore not benefit from the money you are giving to these charities.

During times my brother was homeless he would have looked well turned out at least for the first few weeks after having left home. He might ask for bus or train ticket but actually gone and bought a piece of bread.. you might think well I would have bought him food. But then he’d have to explain to you that no, he can’t eat a sandwich because the voices in his head are telling him he can only eat a small amount of plain bread so he can be humble like a saint.. or he might have desperately wanted to buy some hand sanitiser because he thinks there are bugs crawling on him and he’s picking holes in his skin to get them off. Maybe he needs new shoes because he’s run 30 miles for no reason other than ‘god’ told him to and now he has holes in his shoes and blisters all over and all he wants is a cheap pair of flip flops so he can get some relief.. I could go on.

All you would see is a twenty something young man with a fairly posh accent and reasonable clothes asking you for money for the train, can you imagine your reaction if he told you what he really needed the money for?!

I don’t buy the argument that it’s better to give to a homeless charity. They don’t seem to achieve much. At least if I give money to a homeless person I’m giving them some choice and autonomy to spend it as they see fit - and they get all of it.

I do give change but you can’t give it to everyone every day so you have to make a call each time.

@noworklifebalance

Posted too soon. I am torn every time about the right thing to do.

The right thing to do is always to either take them to a café/ticket office and buy whatever they want for them, or to donate the money to a suitable charity. There is a reason that the charities always advise against giving cash directly - it stops them seeking help.

@CWoW

I could cry some of the attitudes on this post. Its fortunate so many of you haven’t experienced losing a loved one to mental illness and subsequently homelessness. The views you hold about the circumstances of these people are born of a certain privilege.

50% of people with a serious mental illness have no insight, they do not believe or accept that they are ill. They may have chosen homelessness as a last resort after living in a reality where every loved one, police officer, doctor, ‘outreach’ service - tells them they are ill, need help and may even try to have them hospitalised. Rationally they may feel have no where to turn for help, they will avoid homeless services and any person of authority for this very reason. They will therefore not benefit from the money you are giving to these charities.

During times my brother was homeless he would have looked well turned out at least for the first few weeks after having left home. He might ask for bus or train ticket but actually gone and bought a piece of bread.. you might think well I would have bought him food. But then he’d have to explain to you that no, he can’t eat a sandwich because the voices in his head are telling him he can only eat a small amount of plain bread so he can be humble like a saint.. or he might have desperately wanted to buy some hand sanitiser because he thinks there are bugs crawling on him and he’s picking holes in his skin to get them off. Maybe he needs new shoes because he’s run 30 miles for no reason other than ‘god’ told him to and now he has holes in his shoes and blisters all over and all he wants is a cheap pair of flip flops so he can get some relief.. I could go on.

All you would see is a twenty something young man with a fairly posh accent and reasonable clothes asking you for money for the train, can you imagine your reaction if he told you what he really needed the money for?!

But the point is that the scammers make it harder for those genuinely in need

I try to help local homeless people as much as possible, but the shady cunts hanging round the train station on a Thursday with a sob story about needing to get to their sick child in hospital can fuck off!

To be clear the shady cunts AREN'T homeless.

Recently my DH was returning a shopping trolley, with a pound coin in, whilst juggling 3yo DD and the shopping. A women approached him and asked for his trolley, he initially ignored her as he was busy with DD, parked the trolley and got his £1 back, only to then get a mouthful of abuse off the women.

Such a sense of entitlement!

@Pythonista who decides who is and isn’t a ‘shady cunt’ like how is it you think you can tell? Is it a weird look in the eye? The fact you’ve seen them in the same place a few times…
What exactly. Even if you seen them on the regular, how can you decide they don’t really need help?

No. Worked in in A&E in a major city for years and we used to get a guy would travel from West Coast across to us on a weekly basis and he would be brought in daily absolutely comatose drunk to sober up proporting to be homeless/diabetic needed food etc. Decent enough guy when sober but he would openly admit to begging and could easily make £200 then some, said most people gave him fivers and tenners and he only drank Smirnoff, never cheap plonk. Know you shouldn't tar everyone with same brush but after working a weeks nightshifts in an A&E you soon will.

Because I know most of them directly or indirectly

@Upsky

I always keep a few coins in my pocket for rough sleepers and buskers. I just think they are all someone's son or daughter.

I do this too on the advice of my husband.

Op it’s entirely your call, you were there and felt vulnerable about getting your purse out so yanbu. But if you would like to give something going forward without having to dive into your purse then this is a good solution.

I have done it before (first day in new job). The same guy seemed to lose his wallet five days a week and need a couple of euros for his bus fare. He often had a soft toy with him that his son forgot at his house and he wouldn't sleep without it.

Some of the language on here describing fellow human beings is truly awful. Many many people end up on the streets and with a drug/alcohol issue because of significant trauma in their life. Not many people think when I grow up I’d like to have a heroin addiction and be homeless. Often it’s a combination of complex factors.

If you don’t want to give people money that’s your personal decision of course but all the names and derogatory language is unnecessary. This assumption that everyone is a scammer is way off too. If you don’t want to help. That’s your choice. Just try to be kind. Kindness costs nothing

@Orla1970

Some of the language on here describing fellow human beings is truly awful. Many many people end up on the streets and with a drug/alcohol issue because of significant trauma in their life. Not many people think when I grow up I’d like to have a heroin addiction and be homeless. Often it’s a combination of complex factors.

If you don’t want to give people money that’s your personal decision of course but all the names and derogatory language is unnecessary. This assumption that everyone is a scammer is way off too. If you don’t want to help. That’s your choice. Just try to be kind. Kindness costs nothing

The issue is that the MN massive refuse to believe anyone is dodgy. Shoplift, scan benefits, begging - it's all good.

So you don't see that the scammers are affecting the genuine people then that's a shame

Hate the faux naivety on this thread. Of course there's many people in our society who are on the bones of their arse and who deserve care and compassion. And of course if you are throwing pound coins around with liberal abandon many many people are going to either be attracted to accruing it profitably (either instead of gainful employment which they could access, but which is more difficult - see documentary about Bristol street begging where some of those interviewed acknowledged that they had been given housing and could look for work but begging on the street was just easier and more lucrative -, on behalf of some gangmaster who is exploiting them, or instead of engaging with social support and getting help alongside handouts). I am all for not passing by on the other side of the street in theory, but not when

1. fuck all has clearly changed in the life of the person who has now been begging in my local town for longer than I have lived there (12 years) despite the clear benevolence of the local community who frequently give money, food, etc and befriend her. That's not a hand up, its a maintaining factor and I strongly suspect the money goes to a male 'handler'.
2. my 17 year old daughter is called out to, and when she stops to listen briefly and then says I am sorry I can't help having been given a sob story this male follows beside her all the way to the train station talking to her and not taking no for an answer and eventually she had to give him a fiver to get rid of him despite realising he was scamming her. Charities who work with the homeless say not to give and addicts I have worked with say not to give. Being kind isn't always about doing the easy thing and is often just virtue signalling rather than engaging with the complexity of the problem.

Several comments on my previous post about giving. Reading this thread, perhaps I am naive. I live in a small village and rarely visit a city. I live near a town with awful deprivation. People sleeping in shop doorways.
I do give to charities as well and donate to a foodbank. I don't want to be the kind of person who thinks these people are scum.
I wouldn't want to make things worse for a homeless person / addict but it's really not virtue signalling.

Cute dog 🐶 makes you feel nice, so you give money. Believe me, if he didn't have enough money he would jump on the train anyway. He would have spent the money on drugs for sure so you did the right rhing

There used to be a man who hung around the bus station, asking for 37p to make up his bus fare to the hospital to see his sick relative. Pretty much everyone handed over 50p. I only realised he was a beggar when he asked me two days running for 37p.

@Upsky

Several comments on my previous post about giving. Reading this thread, perhaps I am naive. I live in a small village and rarely visit a city. I live near a town with awful deprivation. People sleeping in shop doorways. I do give to charities as well and donate to a foodbank. I don't want to be the kind of person who thinks these people are scum. I wouldn't want to make things worse for a homeless person / addict but it's really not virtue signalling.

Choosing to give to charities instead of people asking on the street doesn’t make you scum.

Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't.

I reckon if that's your option for earning income, your life is probably pretty shit - even if they have a roof over their heads, earning money by constantly approaching people and 9 x out of 10 being ignored/told to fuck off/abused.... thats a shite way to live.

If I've some spare change I tend to say 'you don't need to tell me the bullshit, here's £2..'

The thing is it doesn't matter WHAT they say, some people will give, some people won't.

Tell folk you want to buy some clean socks and a cup of tea, you want to score some crack or buy a quart of vodka, or tell them you need the train to see your dying grandma... it makes no difference, they'll decide for themselves if they want to give you money or not.

So give or don't give but stop with the 'oh they'll only spend it on...... insert whichever heinous thing you think is wrong'.

Own it - don't give because you don't want to. This judging what someone else spends what is at that point, their money, not yours is a massive part of whats fucked up with this country.

We're so concerned with who has what and the idea that someone has what they don't deserve or is spending on things they shouldn't have, we're screwing ourselves over and cutting off our noses to spite our faces.

Every single day, money that was once yours goes to pay for something you absolutely won't like, approve of, is illegal, immoral, disgusting. Just worry about what YOU do with it eh!

[quote CWoW]@Pythonista who decides who is and isn’t a ‘shady cunt’ like how is it you think you can tell? Is it a weird look in the eye? The fact you’ve seen them in the same place a few times…
What exactly. Even if you seen them on the regular, how can you decide they don’t really need help?[/quote]
It's easy enough to tell whether people are lying (e.g. bus fare - they definitely don't want money for bus fare).
The question is how can you decide whether they need help?
Well I personally don't know, but it's my money, so I have to decide.
These days I don't carry small amounts of cash so it's pretty easy, but even if I did I wouldn't donate. I already give plenty to charity.

People can do what they like with their money. They shouldn't insult or degrade vulnerable people. But it's their money and they can do what they like with it.

Ah the competitive virtue signalling is always worth watching

@Pythonista

Ah the competitive virtue signalling is always worth watching

Plenty of vitriol on MN about scammer but in real life it's the opposite. People judge those who don't give money to the homeless etc. Yes they may quote studies about giving money to people allowing them to buy drugs, or news articles about begging scams but more often than not people like giving money and then coming into the office to tell everyone about it, or giving money in front of their friends. And the one in a group who doesn't gets looked at oddly.

Strangely enough the same people leave the worst tips in restaurants...
Who knows though maybe it's just those I know. I havent' done a statistical study of everybody's behaviour

As a woman who has experienced aggressive behaviour from being generous once I now stay far far away

Don't feel bad. I live in a town with a huge homeless population. If I gave £2 to everyone who approached me with a story like that I'd probably be £50 or £60 worse off every week. Instead I have a SO to a local homeless charity and a couple of old boys I occasionally give a few quid.

And 'I saw someone shoplifting a tv so I thought they must need it and I paid for it myself and carried it back to their house and set it up for them'