To think once every 2 weeks is enough?

[naggy095]

Sorry it’s another PIL one…MIL does this passive aggressive thing of talking to 4mo DD in her baby voice about things that are directed towards me, e.g. “is your mummy anti-social? She is isn’t she!”. My favourite one so far “you’re much prettier than your mummy, aren’t you!”. 🙄

PILs have been going on since the day we got home from the hospital about looking after her overnight (no matter how many times I decline the requests keep coming), and the most recent comment to DD was “we can’t wait for you to sleep over, but you probably won’t know who we are because we don’t see you enough, do we”. We see PILs with DD at a minimum 1-2 times every 2 weeks, we spend a few hours with them each time. They see her more than anyone else on either side of the families.

AIBU to think at least once every 2 weeks is ‘enough’ for a grandchild to see their grandparents?

OP,

I have sympathy for your husband after your update.

I would think some counselling for him would have value.

It would certainly help him understand his emotions and possibly increase his confidence in his fatherhood.

‘ She will more than likely become aggressively upset, not crocodile tears upset. One of the reasons why I haven't spoken up sooner.’

Why do you want your child to have this person in their life?
Even your dh can’t stand up for what’s right and you’re being bullied as a result.

Let her be aggressive op. Gives you the firm reason to never let her see you all again. You’re not using your child as a pawn, you’re protecting her from toxic, bullying behaviours.

I had really odd experience with bf and MIL.

My own family weren't hugely supportive of bf but with MIL had had odd experience of family friends going on at me about how supportive MIL was with bf. I image she was with them but she really put pressure on to stop or not even try with me and took every opportunity to try and undemine bf.

Even when she was awful in front of them about me bf they'd make excuses or suggest she was right about me bf . It took a way a potential source of support. It also taught me people will find excuses and mimimise some outrages and blantant behavior or just ignore because it doesn't affect them.

I even with first ended up expressing load and it took ages because she made me feel so awful that DH couldn't bottle fed and bond - he told me later he hated bottle feeing pfb.

Looking back I think there was an element to her wanting to ff and have baby overnight - they wasn't happening even after bf stopped. It also had opposite effect to intended - I - and DH - were even more determined to bf and for longer.

I've read your posts @naggy095 and if your DH is working this weekend, and you're not planning on going with your DD to visit the inlaws, I actually wouldn't say anything to them about not planning on being there.
You have your weekend planned out as does your DH and on this occasion, it doesn't match up with what the inlaws demand.
Deal with whatever happens after the fact.
Your DH needs to say to them about you moving to bottlefeeding, "No, mum, no, dad, we're not changing how we feed our child to suit your plans. This is our choice and you will not get us to change our minds"
As for staying over the response needs to be said calmly and clearly without any room for misinterpreting (and it comes from your DH) "Mum and Dad, we are not going to let DD have any overnights until we are ready to, whenever that might be. If you keep asking us, we'll stop these visits with you entirely" and then stick to that. Stop the visits. Don't visit them. Don't let them visit you.
When they are reasonable, then you can resume the visits but there will be no overnights.

We never did sleep overs in our house. We didn't have kids staying with us and our kids never went to anyone elses house. Hasn't seemed to do them any harm.

@LookItsMeAgain I wish that was an option but I can guarantee MIL will message DP asking if we're going so won't be able to get away with not saying anything. Should he just not answer her? If he doesn't though she will then call him and keep calling till he gives her an answer. Like with the decorating DD's room, DP said she kept messaging him about it and he didn't respond so she called him until he answered and said about the decorator etc.

Can you arrange to visit a friend on that day? Your DP is going to have to tell her you won't be going (at some point) and it seems to me that she will be going round to your house if you don't go. So be unavailable. Think of it as reinforcing your boundaries.

If it was anyone else you would describe it as harassment.

Make plans NOW so he can say HE is working and YOU have plans.

Make your plans NOW and tell him later.

No discussion, just plain fact.

I am doing X on Saturday.

Both of you sound harrassed and afraid.

Just awful.

I would be looking at moving going forward if possible if this isn't resolved.

These people are prepared to destroy what should be a happy time, with their nastiness and demands.

Don't allow it.

It’s all about control.

Your DP doesn’t want to ‘push them away’ but they are only interested in the fact that he now has a young child that they can control. There are many red flags for this, their interest in their grandchild is about having her like some kind of possession, demeaning her parents and will lead to them being toxic influences as everything they do will be about control.

If you take a very firm stance now, and protect you and DD, then maybe, maybe, they will learn to actually have a relationship with their grandchild that is genuine. But they have to earn that, and they have to stop the controlling!

That's 'pester power' usually a key tool in the toddler game play book. Not something that you would expect to see an grown adult doing.

Your DH can ignore her phone calls to him. He can say "Mum, we haven't decided what we're doing and when we do, we'll let you know. Now please stop phoning me about this as I have work to do/family to see to/rooms to clear/rooms to pack up/whatever".
She was WAYYYYYY overstepping when it came to the decorator. It's not her home to be decorating. Sure, she can provide a nicknack or whatever to add to the room so long as it matches what YOU and YOUR DH want but she wasn't trying to be helpful. She was trying to run roughshod over your and your ideas and your family. She still wants to be seen as "The Matriarch" but that day has been and gone.

He has to start getting firm with her. She does it to you, so reflect exactly her mannerisms back at her.

[quote naggy095]@LookItsMeAgain I wish that was an option but I can guarantee MIL will message DP asking if we're going so won't be able to get away with not saying anything. Should he just not answer her? If he doesn't though she will then call him and keep calling till he gives her an answer. Like with the decorating DD's room, DP said she kept messaging him about it and he didn't respond so she called him until he answered and said about the decorator etc.[/quote]
Well that’s another way that you know it’s all about control!

If people kick back when you put up boundaries, they want to trash them. That is what the calling is about. You try to just be your own family unit without me being boss? Then I’m going to phone my son - who I can manipulate - and harass.

So when they are kicking off = when you know you are doing the right thing.

Should he just not answer her? If he doesn't though she will then call him and keep calling till he gives her an answer.

I remember that behavior we ended up using using voice mail and answer machines or just unplugging to get space.

I think what stoped it was DH losing patience. One meal he was cooking I was dealing with kids - we had alot going on and were frazzled - she rang he asked to to answer say he'd ring back - so did explained why - she seemed fine - then 30 minutes of her ringing his mobile and then house phone stoping then ringing other - till DH answered and exploded at her. Took a week before she rang again and then acted like it had never happened. He did same when she started ringing him during his work day - got more and more terse with her till she stopped.

If they knew we had plans they ring during them - DH used to try and head it off ringing before hand - though she often ring again. I think last time he missed quite abit of thing we were doing with the kids - I ignored and carrried on - I think he was Done then with it all.

Being out if you think they'll pop round is a good plan - as is not answering the door if you're not visible.

MIL got good at winding us up about appearing even when she didn't really plan to - so it was a huge relief to move away. Told the kids not to give their mobile numbers to them - just in case as well.

In this case I'd try and avoid rewarding the constant calls - but if you do answer just get him to say your busy or he doens't know your plans and he has to work.

Both of you sound harrassed and afraid.

Just awful.

I would be looking at moving going forward if possible if this isn't resolved.

These people are prepared to destroy what should be a happy time, with their nastiness and demands.

Don't allow it.

I emphatically agree.

And in the context of this particular situation, I believe the suggestion upthread about children being 'used as pawns' is similarly awful. There can be no occasion for making the poor mother who finds herself in this position feel any worse than she already does.

I truly hope that views such as these won't sway you, OP, into believing you are being unreasonable. You are not, in any way. In fact, the best and kindest possible response to this kind of behaviour is to put hard boundaries down now, no matter how difficult it seems at first, or your life is only going to get more difficult. If it's allowed to continue this way, it will become absolutely necessary to address this at some point - the longer it goes on, the nastier it will become - and this can unfortunately only increase the likelihood of the most extreme option of no contact being the only viable solution.

I feel for you. Again, I recommend checking out Toxic In-Laws - the Engulfer will leap off the page at you I'm sure

@MarieIVanArkleStinks agreed. Bullies will call you a bully/bossy/unreasonable if you call them out. It’s a classic tactic.

One clear way to work out whether someone is just ‘trying to have a relationship with their grandchild’ or whether they are about bullying and control - is if they refuse reasonable options of contact. Such as once a month and being very respectful, and only increasing contact if all boundaries are stuck to.

Gosh, that sounds awful OP. Like others have said, put boundaries in place now. This is to protect you, your DH and your baby.
Good luck!

[quote naggy095]@ReturntoSpamfritters DP has extensively confided in me on a few occasions about his childhood. To him it wasn't a pleasant one, mainly because of him being an only child but also because of the lack of interest his parents showed in him with his hobbies and not spending time with him, etc. and expecting him to do well at school to their standards. I could go into real depth about it. But I feel the reason DP doesn't particularly want to speak up to his parents is because now they are showing interest in his life he doesn't want to push them away. I do feel bad for DP because he has been brought up by these people who have always been like this.[/quote]
But when did the interest in his life start before the baby or only afterwards so she can be 'loving granny' to anyone that listens

@PurpleMustang it started when I was pregnant. I knew they’d be like this before DD was born and tried to warn and speak with DP about it but he didn’t think they would act like that. Well surprise, surprise, that’s exactly how they’ve acted. 🙄

Good to read that you're going to take a stand with this PA bullying. Be firm whatever she or your FiL say.
I certainly wouldn't allow overnights as when your daughter is older, who knows what poison would be drip fed to her through snide remarks about you.

I agree with PPs suggestions of counselling for your DH.

FOG - Fear, Obligation, Guilt is one he may want to explore.

Ive picked this example fairly randomly to illustrate but there are great books and therapy opportunities around this:

www.loewensteincounseling.com/blog/2019/6/4/the-emotional-fog-fear-obligation-amp-guilt

he really neds some sort of therapy op-hes got FOG as a pp said above and hes got to realise it then deal with his parents or this wont change

My daughter is 11 and has never stayed at PIL’s. They did ask a lot when she was born when? When? When? I said when she can ride the bus on her own to your house. They were too stunned to argue and now it’s set in stone. that was 11 years ago. I was absolutely prepared that no matter what I would never be able to ask her if I needed a favour. However, after four incidents I walked in on when she was with them for a couple of hours that could have been life threatening to DD I knew she was never staying there.

So as I suspected, MIL called DP last night asking about the weekend. I’ve made plans for myself for Saturday now, so DP told her this and I heard her say the words pop over and I could tell DP was about to say “well let me speak to naggy and see what she says” putting the onus on me 🙄 so I stopped him straight away and mouthed NO. He said to her “no naggy doesn’t want that” FFS!! After the phone call I told him in future if a situation like this happens again and I don’t want to go, he shouldn’t be saying it’s me, just say no and leave it at that, don’t give a reason or anything, just no. Because then it gives them a reason to make comments like the do we not see you enough.

If DP and I get some quiet alone time (not counting on it, we’re going through teething and 4 month sleep regression 😢) then I will speak with him about the FOG thing and possible therapy. There are some other things he has confided in me about that I can’t share on here but I know therapy would 100% help him. It’s just the trying to convince him to do it that will be the struggle.

Yeah he really needs to stop it with that. He should be standing up for you off his own back. I’d be really angry with him (except I understand how difficult people find it with FOG and scraps of attention from parents in a dysfunctional dynamic).

@naggy095

So as I suspected, MIL called DP last night asking about the weekend. I’ve made plans for myself for Saturday now, so DP told her this and I heard her say the words pop over and I could tell DP was about to say “well let me speak to naggy and see what she says” putting the onus on me 🙄 so I stopped him straight away and mouthed NO. He said to her “no naggy doesn’t want that” FFS!! After the phone call I told him in future if a situation like this happens again and I don’t want to go, he shouldn’t be saying it’s me, just say no and leave it at that, don’t give a reason or anything, just no. Because then it gives them a reason to make comments like the do we not see you enough.

If DP and I get some quiet alone time (not counting on it, we’re going through teething and 4 month sleep regression 😢) then I will speak with him about the FOG thing and possible therapy. There are some other things he has confided in me about that I can’t share on here but I know therapy would 100% help him. It’s just the trying to convince him to do it that will be the struggle.

Good update. Well done for making plans. Maybe say to your DH that "No" is a complete sentence. Though it seems fairly obvious that he really doesn't want to stand up to her, it could be his new mantra. Hopefully he will get there. Have you got some Ashton & Parsons powders, I found they really helped?

Well done, OP.

Infant ibuprofen is terrific for teething.