To think once every 2 weeks is enough?

[naggy095]

Sorry it’s another PIL one…MIL does this passive aggressive thing of talking to 4mo DD in her baby voice about things that are directed towards me, e.g. “is your mummy anti-social? She is isn’t she!”. My favourite one so far “you’re much prettier than your mummy, aren’t you!”. 🙄

PILs have been going on since the day we got home from the hospital about looking after her overnight (no matter how many times I decline the requests keep coming), and the most recent comment to DD was “we can’t wait for you to sleep over, but you probably won’t know who we are because we don’t see you enough, do we”. We see PILs with DD at a minimum 1-2 times every 2 weeks, we spend a few hours with them each time. They see her more than anyone else on either side of the families.

AIBU to think at least once every 2 weeks is ‘enough’ for a grandchild to see their grandparents?

When you show her your boundaries, she may well kick off big time. If she does, go low contact. Your DH may have had to put up with her behaviour as a child, in which case it will be difficult for him to stand up to her now, but you don't have to put up with it, since you haven't been conditioned in the same way. I expect she has always been like this, it's not new behaviour that has suddenly appeared since you have had a baby (although it may be new to you).
Listen to your gut. Don't put up with her controlling behaviour. Do exactly what YOU want to do, i.e. EBF, no overnights (ever), your DD's bedroom how you want it, your Christmas how you want it. Cut right back on visits. Go low contact. Don't let your DD be controlled, you need to protect her. Your MIL sounds very toxic and I would be very wary.
If she escalates, go no contact, and/or move away.

Have a look at the Susan Forward Toxic In-Laws book, the Kindle free sample is a good taster.

I am glad you are not going to the MIL meet the baby event, I agree it would have been horrible for you. Well done for standing your ground.

Of course she’ll have crocodile tears and play the victim when she gets pulled up on her behaviour. They’re always the same.

They joked about looking after her and not giving her back… that’s not a joke 😳

Well possibly crocodile tears and possibly full-on raging, depends on her modus operandi

@Pinkfluff76

They joked about looking after her and not giving her back… that’s not a joke 😳

I would say that is a warning. When people tell you who they are, believe them.

She will more than likely become aggressively upset, not crocodile tears upset. One of the reasons why I haven't spoken up sooner.

When they ask about an overnight again: flat 'No. Stop asking.'
PA comments: 'What did you say?' If she says she was talking to the baby, 'But the comment was about me. Say it to my face.'
Don't smile, don't embroider your language, don't get emotional at all.

They sound awful, I would continue breastfeeding for as long as possible and say sorry no overnight stays I'm breastfeeding and it will damage DDs routine, I don't want to pump. My kids are teenagers and can probably count on 1 hand the number of times they have seen my ILs, certainly never been supervised overnight by them, not seen them for 3 1/2 years and don't speak enough of their language to communicate fluently with them. They still know who they are though.
If you are getting these comments now, when DD can't understand them, what kind of vile things could she potentially be exposed to from them when she is old enough to understand and come back and repeat to you when she's older.

but providing some kind of ballpark timeframe for when she might be prepared to start discussing overnight stays (which is not the same thing as saying she's prepared to hand over the baby on that date) solves the OP's short-term problem (being pestered) while giving the MIL some kind of certainty that she's not going to be ignored or pushed out of a relationship with her grandchild

DO NOT DO THIS.

Honestly over the years we tried being open to things to find suddenly it was cast in stone couldn't be avoided. Do not give such an opening.

But if it's something your not happy with like overnights - and I had exactly the same- say no clear and repeatedly - broken record.

One thing I did find worked - giving alternatives - but there can be huge pitfalls there as well as sometimes I wish we'd just said no instead.

I also found DH would be none commital or wishy washy no rather than say very clear firm NO - it how we ended up having them book same holiday location as us for four years running. I made it work - looked for advantages - etc - but it was far from ideal.

When we did change where we went MIL tried to manipulate youngest to saying she wouldn't enjoy holiday without them - soon brushed off - but I did worry they'd do they'd same. I had to get DH to swear no to say till really late - place books up very early.

The manage to get there off peak before us - and then tried to be experts but I knew the area well so even that was annoying.

I've spent a lot of time making things work for everyone but it has come at a cost to me.

Currently trying to be supportive to DH - which DH seem to be greatful for- but has some belittling and rudeness directed at me about that so taking more steps back.

I wish I'd understood this was always going to be a thing that needed managing and had better strategies from the start. It has shifted over the years it's more FIL than MIL now and I think they've run though whole gamat of guises currrently in The Rejecters phase - but yea it's always there.

No. Overnight visits are not compulsory.

@naggy095

She will more than likely become aggressively upset, not crocodile tears upset. One of the reasons why I haven't spoken up sooner.

Also most likely why your DH is being non-confrontational. Have you asked him what she was like when he was a child? As that might give you some clues. If she is a narcissist, probably even boundaries won't help you, as she won't listen. But try. And be ready to leave/kick her out if she starts shouting.

If she gets aggressively upset then all she’ll do is harm her chances at seeing her tiny grandchild anytime soon. A baby doesn’t need to be around an aggressive grandparent.

People can get angry, aggressive, throw tantrums and freak the fuck out all they like, doesn’t mean you’re obligated to tiptoe around them. They can be told clearly and firmly that if they can’t behave in a civilised and respectful manner, you won’t be engaging with them.

@naggy095

She will more than likely become aggressively upset, not crocodile tears upset. One of the reasons why I haven't spoken up sooner.

You sound afraid OP.

Even more reason to tape her.

So there isn't any ambiguity about how she behaves.

Why would you want your child around a person that you and your partner are fundamentally afraid of?

Part of being a parent is advocating for them.

That is required here.

By you saying you are a wimp, avoid confrontation etc,. and are avoiding standing up to these bullys, you are putting yourself ahead of what is best for your child.

Your partner is already doing this.

Both parents putting their feelings of fear ahead of what is best for their baby is not good.

It really isn't.

You need to be brave.
Your baby needs you to be brave.

Go to your parents if you need support.

@ReturntoSpamfritters DP has extensively confided in me on a few occasions about his childhood. To him it wasn't a pleasant one, mainly because of him being an only child but also because of the lack of interest his parents showed in him with his hobbies and not spending time with him, etc. and expecting him to do well at school to their standards. I could go into real depth about it. But I feel the reason DP doesn't particularly want to speak up to his parents is because now they are showing interest in his life he doesn't want to push them away. I do feel bad for DP because he has been brought up by these people who have always been like this.

I've spent a lot of time making things work for everyone but it has come at a cost to me

^This from InferiorCatSlave

@naggy095

She will more than likely become aggressively upset, not crocodile tears upset. One of the reasons why I haven't spoken up sooner.

What does agressively upset look like - it might be easier to point out how bad it is round your DC to DH.

I had a friend whose MIL got agrresively upset when her DS, friends's DH, said no to something and attacked her DS while he was holding their baby on stairs - that was it never saw her again despite the Step-Dad trying to mend fences it was phone calls only till they emigrated years later.

I did PA back - not my finest moment but it worked - as it was harder for MIL to turn it back on me - plus two can do the faux innocent what have I said - I can't say anything right then later moved to NO - were not doing that approach and repeat as my confidence and frustration grew.

I agree, it's very hard for your husband. First they were crappy parents, then he had hopes of them being better (showing some interest), now they are turning out to be crappy grandparents.
Unfortunately, once they have these set patterns of behaviour, real change is very unlikely, imo.
Maybe your DH would see a therapist? It might help him come to terms with and recognise their behaviour for what it is.

To him it wasn't a pleasant one, mainly because of him being an only child but also because of the lack of interest his parents showed in him with his hobbies and not spending time with him, etc. and expecting him to do well at school to their standards.

I think DH faired slightly better - less school pressure - but as our kids got older it was painfull clear there weren't postive stories of his childhood till he was at in late primary and then it massivley improved. He was expect to fit round them though, They were postively clingy by his late teens early 20s.

Though DH and his mate were encouaged and facilitated in underaged drinking by IL and having kids age as they were - there have been WTF momemts from both of them - his mate said I used to think they were so cool - but serioulsy what were they playing at. They put the publicans at risk as well as they were helping them buy in pubs.

He might just need help saying no to them till he gets there himself.

@naggy095

Thank you all for the further advice and comments. They have given me a confidence boost to speak up to MIL when it happens again. If anyone saw my update about her family visiting on the weekend and us going, we aren’t going anymore as DP is working and I refuse to go by myself with DD as otherwise I would be invisible and no one would speak to me but take DD and smother her. We haven’t said to MIL yet that we can’t go anymore but I’m sure she won’t be happy, oh well.

I still haven’t had a chat with DP yet either about MIL, hopefully I can tonight if DD doesn’t have colic again and scream for 2 hours straight like she did last night 🙃 I’m sure PILs wouldn’t want to have her overnight when she’s like that!

Being smothered by grandparents isn't a bad thing op. That's what babies do, they suck the attention from everyone else. It won't be forever as once they're old enough, they won't want to be held or passed around.

@Treesandsheepeverywhere I don't have an issue as such with the smothering, they do it constantly when I'm with them anyway. The point I was making is that they'll take her, parade her around to their family whilst no one speaks to me because DP won't be there. With them knowing he won't be there they'll feel they can get away with not having to speak to me but take my baby. I'm not prepared to speak up to them by myself without DP there yet which is why I am not going to go.

@Treesandsheepeverywhere have you RTFT?
Its not about apple-cheeked happy grandmothers smothering their GC with affection, its about an unpleasant grandmother trying to take control. Please keep up.

@naggy095, that's fair enough. At the end of the day do what you feel comfortable with. No one needs to be made to feel the way they do to you. Great that your dh is willing to support you in tackling it going forward. Good luck.

[quote naggy095]@Treesandsheepeverywhere I don't have an issue as such with the smothering, they do it constantly when I'm with them anyway. The point I was making is that they'll take her, parade her around to their family whilst no one speaks to me because DP won't be there. With them knowing he won't be there they'll feel they can get away with not having to speak to me but take my baby. I'm not prepared to speak up to them by myself without DP there yet which is why I am not going to go.[/quote]
This is an excellent plan. Firstly, it cements the idea that the THREE of you are a unit. Also, if you are disinterested in going, they've only themselves to blame.

Get your DH to stay close to you on family occasions and just observe how little you are included or acknowledged and how many times an offhand remark is aimed your way.

Something very similar happened in my family. The MIL got away with the rudeness and criticism of her DIL in the baby years but by the time the eldest was 3 or 4 he was able to ask his Daddy why Granny said X about Mummy on the plenty of sleepovers they had.

Their DS took a stance - he addressed the issue head on, but without a massive confrontation. Just simply pointed out that bitching about his wife in front of their mother was unacceptable, and why. And that if that continued, he would not be bringing them to visit. It took a few false starts and firmness, but the MIL eventually learned that if she alienated a key person in her DS's life, she would ultimately alienate them all, including the GC.

It's not about using the child as a pawn. It's about ensuring that the child never bears the brunt of family members being unkind or abusive about their DM.

[quote naggy095]@ReturntoSpamfritters she's already been asking why I haven't stopped breastfeeding yet, that I should bottle feed her. Whenever I ask why she thinks that she never has an answer. It's obviously so she thinks she can look after her.[/quote]
Backing up a bit here (catching up on reading), that may not be the only reason. Depending on her age, and where she grew up, she may be a part of that generation (actually about a generation and a half) who were taught by medical personnel that breastfeeding was actually unsanitary and not best for babies, that formula given in sterilized bottles was far safer and more nutritious.

Of course, those medical personnel had been bombarded with trumped-up information by formula companies. Those companies made a HUGE push to turn people away from breastfeeding, and succeeded very well. According to them, the ONLY people who would breastfeed were the lower classes, and that their children would suffer from it. Thank GOD, those days are over.

At any rate, she may have grown up hearing that message, as well.

And THAT SAID, tell her to back TF off. Or get DH to tell her, she is his mum.