Self identifying as black or white

[MontEthna]

Please hear me out.

I have two dcs, both dual citizens who have lived in the UK all their lives. When the census came, there was no way to put two citizenship on the form so I asked them what they wanted me to put. One said british, the other his other citizenship. So they clearly self identified/realted more as as having different citizenship iyswim.

I also have a cousin who mixed race. Her mum (my aunt) is white but her dad is black. But she has never had the opportunity to actually chose which race she is (the way my dcs could chose their main citizenship). She has always been considered black. That's despite the fact she has never lived in her dad's country/africa and was actually raised by another white aunt (having become an orphan). She doesn't relate to 'black culture'. The only way she feels 'different' culture wise is her hair - because she struggles to find a hairdresser who nows how to deal with it.

So my question is: why are people not able to chose which race they are? What if someone who is mixed race feels more like being white than being black (insert any other race there, it doesn't really matter)?

most forms have endless lists to id from including "other" I refused to id my mixed race dc because it was never my right to choose on their behalf - but I made sure they knew both sides of their family as their family & part of them - if that makes sense?
To be honest - I just see them as OUR dc

You may be light skinned though and this is common.

Yes but skin colour shouldn't matter. It doesn't change your heritage.

I get it but it's still seeing oneself in the way others tell you to. It's the racist society that we live in that's made it this way. Doesn't have to be though.

@flippertyop

I think it's interesting that one of your kids doesn't identify as British. I have dual nationality as do all my family, two of my BBa have dual citizenship (one with both parents from a different country) we have all lived in Britain our whole lives so I don't see how we can describe ourselves as anything other than British. Why does your child identify as another nationality? Have they ever actually lived there?

I think the reason for that is that their peers have always highlighted that they are different - all down to the 'go back to your own country' in the middle fo brexit.

So even thugh they are briotish and feel british, its their non britishness that is highlighted and they ended up feeling more strongly related to.

It’s really not complex, pick whatever you want, no one really cares at the end of the day, not even the data gatherers…

But I do find that someone saying that they identify as one when they are 2 races is ignoring part of their life/family.

YY! You've express what I feel much better than me!

For me it doesn't make sense but I feel like people are forced to choose (just like my dcs were forced to chose of they are 'more' british of other)
It doesn't feel right and even less so that actually the choice is skewed and they can't actually chose iyswim.

Well you just showed yourself more @charlestonchaplin. I tried to help you conceal your obvious bias when you claimed it as self-delusion that someone part-black could claim to be white but refused to comment on the opposite.

Suddenly, you felt challenged and like a deer caught in a headlight. Then, out comes the quickest and laziest racist trope you can find: aggressive.

We were just having a conversation but your racism is showing.

@donquixotedelamancha

why are people not able to chose which race they are? What if someone who is mixed race feels more like being white than being black

Humans don't have races. It's a completely made up idea. It's just as valid to describe her as white (I know a similar family who make the same point).

The problem is that racists are real and their silly beliefs are generally based on skin colour. So while your cousin certainly doesn't have to identify with any race she may, sadly, be treated as if she is black.

You are absolutely spot on

I don't know where you live but you can choose in england. We don't have all this black or white stuff in my home country so when I came here I just choose white as that is how I saw myself. But recently I was thinking am I really white? So I asked my doctor to change to mixed race other and that is what I put on forms now,

And the other way around, there was a story a few years back about a baby born from two black parents but was white.

Your genetics are your genetics. If you’re albino and your parents are both black, you are still black. I watched a documentary about a black family with albino children and the children identified as being black.

There are a lot of racial stereotypes which people think if they don’t fit into it must be because they identify as a different race but it’s not. Very similar to those who believe they must be born in the wrong body because they like cars instead of make up etc.

Agree toocold54

@toocold54 the child in question wasn’t albino and had white’ features.

And yes it was all put down to genetics etc….

However, there has been many people on this thread saying that how you look defines your race (colour of the skin, facial features etc…).
So if you have features of black people you can’t possibly say you are white.
So if you don’t fit those features but your both your parents do (and grand parents etc…) where do you stand?

I remember that, at the time, there was some questions raised on how child might fit as he wouldn’t fit physically within his community.

I think the idea of dual heritage is an interesting one.

No child/person should ever have to dismiss half of their heritage, whether it’s culturally or racially. But somehow our society seems to think it’s ok for mixed race people to dismiss one half (eg forget that they are born from a white parent too).

I’m :( that it’s always the same part that is dismissed and the same part that is emphasised. Somehow the ingrained racism is showing off there too.

My comment to you stands. Being Black doesn't absolve you of racist insults and it's even more shameful that it's the first word you decided to throw out, knowing the racial implication, when your post is the one riddled with personal attacks and hysteria. Hypocrite much?

Yes your racism IS showing.

Good that you've decided to leave as you still act like a deer caught in the headlights. I have no idea what you're harping on about really.

That was to charlestonchaplin

I wasn't stopping you from replying. We were crossposting and I thought we were having a conversation but you did what anyone who feels caught out or challenged does, attack and in the laziest way possible. Not any different from anyone else who does the same, is it?

Can't take you seriously after that.

@MatildaIThink

If someone with a penis can self identify as female I don't see why someone with white skin cannot self identify as black. I think both are wrong, but one group should not get special "self-identifying" credentials if another does not.

^^This

I think you’re getting race and ethnicity confused.

You can’t choose your race as this is based on biological aspects.

But they can choose their ethnicity as this boils down to how you identify.

And like others have said in particular with disasters, things like sickle cell disease is much more common in people with African backgrounds, this isn’t something you would want to leave off of your medical history.

Ethnicity in the U.K. is a matter of self identification. You can choose whichever one you want.

I don't get why people say that race is not real. The fact that I am Jewish is very relevant to my medical history, as there are certain conditions that are far more prevalent among Ashkenazi Jews than among the general population.

That was me. I'm a biochemist. Humans are not remotely genetically grouped enough to have races. Race theory was disproven at the start of the 20th century.

The idea that small phenotypic differences like skin colour or medical conditions in particular groups constitute a separate race which determines people's character is racism.

I am not for a moment minimising the importance of culture and heritage but I think OP is right not to use the racist's idea's and language to describe her family.

I don't think there is any definition of black or white (or any other"race") that isn't based on how you look.

Black = African heritage? How many generations? Are Afrikaners black? What if I have an Afrikaner grandparent? In any event most of us who identify as black or white don't know where our ancestors beyond our grandparents were born. And anyway what makes them either black or white? We'd need to know about their ancestors.

We say we're black of white because of what we look like and what our immediate ancestors look like.

I don’t know how to contact MNHQ so I’ve had to guess why my very considered posts were deleted and alter accordingly.

I didn’t know that @MyMabel
Thank you.

Is that the same sort of difference one would make between sex and gender?