If you are a mum looking after your kids day to day, did give realise you were a ‘SAHM’ before coming on MN?

[sangak]

It always strikes me, that MN always has much to say about so-called ‘SAHMs.’ But if you said ‘SAHM’ (pronouncing it as ‘Sarm’) in real-life, nobody would know what this is. I know many women who don’t work due to children / family, but not one of them would know they were ‘Sarms’ or even recognise what ‘SAHM’ stands for - or that it is even considered ‘a thing.’ Just seems weird that the whole debate on here is so removed from real life.

And as for my marriage, I’m just telling you the truth. I don’t recall having ‘the conversation’ about me working or not working. It’s just something that took shape over time for various reasons and that’s all I can really say.

I'm not sure what you're actually looking for from this thread OP?

Clearly conversation on MN isn't anything like conversations that happen within your social circle, but then the way your social circle interacts is absolutely nothing like it is for the majority of people.

I suspect that MN discussions are far more relatable to the majority of people than the way you live.

@sangak

lottie - it’s not about what is the norm on a national level. That’s another debate. As people have said on here, only 20% of women are SAH - a minority. So rather than making blanket statements about the ‘norm’ or majority in Britain and applying this to women who SAH, why not consider that having identified SAHMs as a minority, then what are the actual circumstances for that minority. Yes money will be a factor - isn’t it always? Some women can’t afford to work. Others don’t need to. Cultural issues may come into play, Many women who SAH have just had an ex-pat lifestyle for so long, working ceases to be an option for them. On threads, when you see comments like, “He should be doing 50/50 childcare” or “he needs to cut his hours” and this kind of thing - for many SAHMs that is irrelevant advice as it’s just not going to happen.

That’s a completely different tangent to the rest of the thread, right there. You’ve spent the whole thread arguing that staying at home with your kids is just ‘normal’, so normal that it isn’t worthy of discussion, and now you’re talking about SAHM’s being a minority and having to consider them and treat them accordingly. For most people, the choice to become a SAHP is one that needs to be discussed. For you, in your circumstances, that isn’t applicable. You seem unable to consider anything outside of your very narrow viewpoint.

We used to be called housewives! If you don't like SAHM, you could always be a 'homemaker.' 🤮

I don’t recall having ‘the conversation’ about me working or not working

Do you not regret that at all? I mean...even if you were ecstatically happy being a SAHM now (and tbh you sound more passively resigned than ecstatic), don't you think that something so central to what you actually do with your life should have been an active choice rather than something you fell into (or were automatically expected to do by your husband)?

I only got into my own circumstances because some people were asking questions about if I was Iranian and do I live in a closed community, so I felt as if I should explain

My circumstances are just that though and irrelevant. I can’t speak for the general population of Britain and what’s normal and not normal. If we’re talking about SAHMs though, I can say that I do know a lot of them. It’s normal to me yes, but sometimes the debates in MN are a stark reminder that maybe my ‘norms’ not normal. I know this anyway, but it’s a different when you read some of the stuff in here about SAHMs. So I accept that. The SAHM debates are bizarre reading sometimes though (by any standards) and it can make you question if those attitudes represent wider society, or just a few people prone to certain threads on MN. That’s what I wonder, in a nutshell.

Well, that's nice for you, dear.

And to answer your question, yes I realised I was a SAHM because, like most people, we cannot afford not to be aware of the financial implications of that choice. Also because most mothers (in our really quite nice, middle class neighbourhood) work. Most MC professional families I know cannot afford to support a SAHP, or that choice comes with considerable financial sacrifices.

@sangak

lottie - it’s not about what is the norm on a national level. That’s another debate. As people have said on here, only 20% of women are SAH - a minority. So rather than making blanket statements about the ‘norm’ or majority in Britain and applying this to women who SAH, why not consider that having identified SAHMs as a minority, then what are the actual circumstances for that minority. Yes money will be a factor - isn’t it always? Some women can’t afford to work. Others don’t need to. Cultural issues may come into play, Many women who SAH have just had an ex-pat lifestyle for so long, working ceases to be an option for them. On threads, when you see comments like, “He should be doing 50/50 childcare” or “he needs to cut his hours” and this kind of thing - for many SAHMs that is irrelevant advice as it’s just not going to happen.

This is exactly why people post "I'm a SAHM" or "I work, earn roughly 1/2 what DH does" when they ask questions on MN. Because work/income is really relevant in many cases; it's not just an insignificant detail that's not worth mentioning.

Obviously if you were talking to a friend in real life, they wouldn't need to tell you that stuff, because you'd already know.

But I'm pleased that you've learnt something from the thread. Your OP, taking out the nonsense about pronunciation, said:

It always strikes me, that MN always has much to say about so-called ‘SAHMs.’ But if you said ‘SAHM’ in real-life, nobody would know what this is. I know many women who don’t work due to children / family, but not one of them would know they were ‘Sarms’ or even recognise what ‘SAHM’ stands for - or that it is even considered ‘a thing.’ Just seems weird that the whole debate on here is so removed from real life.

You've moved from there, to recognising that being a SAHM is indeed 'a thing', to such an extent that you're happy to lecture me on the topic! As people have said on here, only 20% of women are SAH - a minority. So rather than making blanket statements about the ‘norm’ or majority in Britain and applying this to women who SAH, why not consider that having identified SAHMs as a minority, then what are the actual circumstances for that minority.

Why not indeed!

Oh but hang on... My circumstances are just that though and irrelevant.

So we're supposed to consider individual circumstances - but not consider individual circumstances. Got it (not!)!

The SAHM debates are bizarre reading sometimes though (by any standards) and it can make you question if those attitudes represent wider society, or just a few people prone to certain threads on MN.

You mean misogynistic comments like ‘why even bother having children’ that’s currently been made to working mothers (not fathers) on a concurrent thread?

Who knows. It’s a fairly obnoxious POV so probably wouldn’t be aired so freely IRL.

lottie - using a patronising tone isn’t helpful. I’m not even sure what you’re asking me at this point.

You can think what you like about my circumstances. I’m just one individual, as are we all. The fact is, the debate about SAHMs on MN is very peculiar and loaded at times. It really is. And no, I don’t think the level of judgement and vitriol about SAHMs that gets repeatedly trotted out, is reflective of real life. I really don’t. Not just in my particular sphere, anyone’s sphere.

The SAHM debates are bizarre reading sometimes though (by any standards) and it can make you question if those attitudes represent wider society, or just a few people prone to certain threads on MN.

Honest question, what are the "bizarre" debates? Can you give examples of these attitudes on here that you don't think are reflected IRL. Any debate (or discussion) I have seen on here about the advantages and disadvantages of being a SAHM or WOHM never strike me as bizarre.

Maybe you don't spend your days with your SAHM friends discussing your choices, but threads are here about the topic are just that, about the topic.

The tone is merely illustrative of the pointlessness of the thread, as I'd explained.

I think if you read back through the thread, even just back through your own posts, you do see an interesting progression. So maybe not a pointless thread for you.

IRL? People are polite. Not spitting their most heartfelt, or more often, most instantly reflexive thoughts, onto a screen. Also, as you illustrate, people tend to live in socio-economic bubbles of similar people.

I think if you read back through the thread, even just back through your own posts, you do see an interesting progression. So maybe not a pointless thread for you

I agree with this.
I think perhaps at the beginning of the thread you weren’t being entirely clear and honest with your intention… instead of saying what you have just said in your last post (that the judgement on here towards SAHM’s isn’t replicated in real life in your experience), you rather disingenuously dressed it up as a lighthearted discussion about ‘not knowing’ that you’re a ‘sarm’. I think this thread would have been far more interesting and productive if you’d opened with saying what you’ve said in your last post!
Instead, you’ve gone from saying that you didn’t know you were a SAHM, to it being so unimportant a detail that it’s not worth discussing, to it being a minority category that needs more consideration, to being upset at the level of perceived vitriol you see aimed at SAHM’s here.

I think you have misunderstood what I was getting at in the OP. I was not saying I didn’t know that a SAHM is, or understand that I might be categorised as such. I’m saying it’s not a phrase that I, or other people I personally know (who are SAHMs) particularly say or use to describe ourselves. Just as if most of yours friends work, you wouldn’t think of them a WOHMs or actually say that in day to day reality.

I’m not sure giving specific examples is useful, but I do think the SAHM v WOHM debate on MN is quite uniquely ridiculous in the exaggerated tone it often takes on here. I don’t see evidence of this mentality in real life and I’d be surprised if anyone does.

I’m not sure giving specific examples is useful, but I do think the SAHM v WOHM debate on MN is quite uniquely ridiculous in the exaggerated tone it often takes on here. I don’t see evidence of this mentality in real life and I’d be surprised if anyone does

If you’d said that in your OP, this could have been an interesting discussion

I don’t see evidence of this mentality in real life and I’d be surprised if anyone does.

Well indeed, I’ve never had any SAHM ask me why I’ve bothered having children in real life, no.

I didn’t want to get into a whole SAHM / WOHM nonsense thread TheGrumpyGoat, because these have been done to death and never go anywhere but crazy.

I posted because of what I perceive as a disconnect between the way things are classified and phrased (and therefore discussed) on MN, as opposed to real life.

Are you ignoring my comments because they don’t fit your narrative of the ‘bashed’ SAHMs, OP?

No I’m just not sure what you want me to say about some crazy random on a thread I’m not aware of?

Maybe acknowledge that the MN ‘judgement & vitriol’ goes both ways and not unidirectionally towards SAHMs, as you implied upthread.

I can acknowledge that. Some women will judge those who have their babies / children in childcare. Sure. I can see how that could cut deep for many women and it’s very unpleasant.

I can also wholeheartedly say I hold no vitriol towards anyone and have never expressed a view about women who work, or don’t work or work part-time or whatever the case may be.

I’ll only judge other mums when I’ve walked in their shoes, had their kids and their husbands

Which won’t happen any time soon!

Can you honestly say the same about yourself Flocon?

@sangak

I think you have misunderstood what I was getting at in the OP. I was not saying I didn’t know that a SAHM is, or understand that I might be categorised as such. I’m saying it’s not a phrase that I, or other people I personally know (who are SAHMs) particularly say or use to describe ourselves. Just as if most of yours friends work, you wouldn’t think of them a WOHMs or actually say that in day to day reality.

I’m not sure giving specific examples is useful, but I do think the SAHM v WOHM debate on MN is quite uniquely ridiculous in the exaggerated tone it often takes on here. I don’t see evidence of this mentality in real life and I’d be surprised if anyone does.

But by your own admission, you drifted out of your working life with without even discussing it with your husband or giving it any thought, it’s never occurred to you to return to work, you only socialise with women who don’t work and men who assume they don’t — surely you can admit you’re unusually unaware of what is very much a live issue for other people, both on Mn and in real life?

Can you honestly say the same about yourself Flocon?

Yes, I can. I think it’s unwise for anyone to SAH for an extended period as it (generally) leaves them vulnerable in various ways, not least financially, obviously. And more often than not, it’s women on the receiving end when the shit hits the fan.

But I don’t judge their parenting because it’s impossible to do that - each situation is unique. You’ll have some SAHMs who are excellent parents and others who are abysmal, same for WOHMs.