If you are a mum looking after your kids day to day, did give realise you were a ‘SAHM’ before coming on MN?

[sangak]

It always strikes me, that MN always has much to say about so-called ‘SAHMs.’ But if you said ‘SAHM’ (pronouncing it as ‘Sarm’) in real-life, nobody would know what this is. I know many women who don’t work due to children / family, but not one of them would know they were ‘Sarms’ or even recognise what ‘SAHM’ stands for - or that it is even considered ‘a thing.’ Just seems weird that the whole debate on here is so removed from real life.

I genuinely have been thinking of myself as a Sarm (internally) since I found MN. Obviously it’s just me then

No women I know are SAHM - we are all in paid employment too. I thought it was a well known description though. Whenever I have spoken to a woman I don't know they have never described themselves as a 'mum'.

That is like describing yourself as a 'wife' or 'daughter'

@sangak

I genuinely have been thinking of myself as a Sarm (internally) since I found MN. Obviously it’s just me then

Yes, it is just you. Nobody says that.

They do call themselves SAHM (saying the actual words out loud). Just because you’ve never heard it doesn’t make it untrue.

It’s an interesting question about what is introduce myself as because to be honest, I don’t really know. I guess it’s not been an issue really, over the years. If I meet people through the schools or hobbies etc, it’s usually fairly apparent that they’re not working, do there’s no need to state the obvious, I suppose. Who knows what people do in their days? If they want to tell me, they will. Then, in terms of people we’ve met or people we entertain through my husbands work and contacts, the husbands wouldn’t really come up to me and ask if I work or not, as a general rule. It would be considered quite forward and rude. It’s hard to explain actually, but that kind of conversation doesn’t really happen, particularly when we divide use as a couple which we do mainly. Then there just people who’ve known me for years and I know them and that’s it really.

*socialise, don’t know where ‘divide use’ came from.

You all need to watch this clip about acronym pronunciations

Doovdé 🤣

Ha ha .

In my defence, people do say ‘Nasa’ as a word. Also ‘Potus.’ I’m sure there are many occasions where acronyms become words. In my mind, Sarm has become one of them.

Op you do realise it’s written sahm and not sarm and it’s pronounced stay at home mum not sarm right? You appear confused.

I also don’t know how you can tell when you meet someone if they work or not? You cannot be of the impression that if a woman has a child with her then by default she doesn’t work? What about a man?

@Bluntness100

Op you do realise it’s written sahm and not sarm and it’s pronounced stay at home mum not sarm right? You appear confused.

I also don’t know how you can tell when you meet someone if they work or not? You cannot be of the impression that if a woman has a child with her then by default she doesn’t work? What about a man?

I was thinking this. DH picks our kids up from school 3 days a week, would people assume he doesn’t work? He’s a director at an international bank, he just happens to have arranged his diary so he can do some school pick ups!

Then, in terms of people we’ve met or people we entertain through my husbands work and contacts, the husbands wouldn’t really come up to me and ask if I work or not, as a general rule. It would be considered quite forward and rude. It’s hard to explain actually, but that kind of conversation doesn’t really happen, particularly when we divide use as a couple which we do mainly.

But 'What do you do?' is a perfectly normal social question to someone of either sex that you haven't met before. Unless there's a deeply conservative assumption in your husband's work circles that women don't work, which it sounds as if there is. Or are you only specifying 'the husbands' because none of the women you encounter through your husband's work entertaining work outside the home, so it doesn't occur to any of you to ask about jobs?

'Stay at home parent' is a normal concept in real, everyday life.

How else would you describe a, well, stay at home parent?

Also, I'd pronounce it sam, if I said it out loud. Which I never would.

I think maybe op you’ve assumed your social norms are everyone’s social norms, which is quite unusual.

Asking someone what they do is a normal question, it is not perceived as rude generally, it’s like commenting on the weather. I understand for you it is considered rude, but for many other people, men or women asking a woman what they do for a living is not a rude question, people don’t assume mothers don’t work, and we are treated as separate and autonomous individuals to our husbands.

I understand that’s not the case for you, but you need to understand that’s not the case for many other women, as said in the Uk now approx 80 percent of mothers work.

I find that most people expect that everyone works, and ask questions accordingly. 'What do you do?' etc. So, as a SAHM, I actively have to explain that that's what I'm doing at the moment.

On the school gates thing, it’s not about glancing at people. It’s that you just get to know people. If there’s a coffee morning or whatever, it becomes reasonably clear who can come and who can’t because of work. So it’s not a direct question as such.

When we first moved here, I decided to host a coffee morning and I invited about about ten houses one direction and the same on the other. They all came. Nobody mentioned they had to run off for work or anything and nobody asked this sort of question. I see them around in the day and I assume from chatting in person and on the Whatsapp we have in this road that they’re not working, or if they are it’s from home and very part-time.

@sangak

On the school gates thing, it’s not about glancing at people. It’s that you just get to know people. If there’s a coffee morning or whatever, it becomes reasonably clear who can come and who can’t because of work. So it’s not a direct question as such.

When we first moved here, I decided to host a coffee morning and I invited about about ten houses one direction and the same on the other. They all came. Nobody mentioned they had to run off for work or anything and nobody asked this sort of question. I see them around in the day and I assume from chatting in person and on the Whatsapp we have in this road that they’re not working, or if they are it’s from home and very part-time.

Well that in itself means your area is not a representative sample. If I invited 10 houses one way and 10 the other for a coffee morning, the majority of them, men and women, would be at work.

I think for mothers becoming SAHMs to be the social norm, you (and the people you associate with) either have to be very rich, or very poor.

Most of us are somewhere in the middle, reliant on two incomes (and/or living among people who do).

So yeah, for most couples, choosing to adopt a SAHM role has to be thought about and 'named', because careful planning and budgeting is required.

So in summary you're trying to tell us that Mumsnet is a weird place because in real life it's just obvious that women don't work and it's rude to even mention the possibility. However, it's basically you who either live in a weird enclave as 80% of mothers work or you just assume everyone is like you when they aren't.

I pick up my son from school and can even attend school events or the odd coffee morning despite working

Hi answer Bluntness, I was just trying to say that social situations obviously vary. For instance, if we are entertaining or at an event and it’s my husband’s contacts who are mainly Saudi or other Middle Eastern or Iranian or whatever, they would wait for him to introduce me. Also they wouldn’t ask someone else’s wife if she works or that kind of thing. You don’t ask about someone else’s wife. My husband found out that one if his colleagues has two wives , but he didn’t know this for years as the first wife in in Egypt and the other in the U.K. But obviously, if we’re having a BBQ and it’s mainly European and British friends, it’s different.

Yes, to use another very MN term, this thread might be regarded as a 'stealth boast'.

That is, 'we're so rich and our marriage so strong that we never had to consider whether we could afford for me not to work, after having children, ever again. Nor I, whether this places me in a financially vulnerable position.' 'Oh and everyone I know is the same, because our husbands are all such high earners. We do live in a very nice neighourhood, of course.'

To which the only possible response is 'that's nice dear'.

What about your husband's female business contacts and colleagues OP? Do you ever ask about their husbands, what they do? Or would that not be considered 'nice'. You just assume they're busy at home?

It’s definitely starting to look that way, @lottiegarbanzo.
Of course whether or not a family can afford/wants a SAHP is a big consideration for most people. And of course that often invites discussion on an online forum, because for most it’s a big decision.

lottie - it’s not about what is the norm on a national level. That’s another debate. As people have said on here, only 20% of women are SAH - a minority. So rather than making blanket statements about the ‘norm’ or majority in Britain and applying this to women who SAH, why not consider that having identified SAHMs as a minority, then what are the actual circumstances for that minority. Yes money will be a factor - isn’t it always? Some women can’t afford to work. Others don’t need to. Cultural issues may come into play, Many women who SAH have just had an ex-pat lifestyle for so long, working ceases to be an option for them. On threads, when you see comments like, “He should be doing 50/50 childcare” or “he needs to cut his hours” and this kind of thing - for many SAHMs that is irrelevant advice as it’s just not going to happen.